Publishing a trick for free...

[ikadiallah]

Hello
I created a trick which has two moves that are well known and of course not mine.
Is it okay to publish the trick for free on the marketplace or on Instagram or anywhere?

 

[obrienmagic]

The general idea when it comes to publishing magic using moves you did not create is to ask the original creator of the move for permission. If the move is so old that it has fallen into public forum (like the pass or double lift for example) then it should be fine. Make sure to credit the parts of the routine you did not create and the ideas and routines you got inspiration from.

 

[Spaz]

The general idea when it comes to publishing magic using moves you did not create is to ask the original creator of the move for permission.

I have to interject on this one. A move itself cannot be copyrighted. What you copyright is the patter and any props but even that is limited when it comes to things such as Do you need to get permission from Bicycle to use Double faced/backed cards?

To elaborate on this further look at Elmsley count.
How many card tricks use it? How many variants of the Elmsley count there are.
Another element is saying you need to get permission from the person who created the DL/TL?

If it's just a trick that involves those types of things I described above, I would just publish the trick and say what moves you're doing, If the trick involves any props, make a second video with the links to a legitimate seller mentioning that video in the current.

I would refrain from publishing a trick you bought!

 

[obrienmagic]

I have to interject on this one. A move itself cannot be copyrighted. What you copyright is the patter and any props but even that is limited when it comes to things such as Do you need to get permission from Bicycle to use Double faced/backed cards?

To elaborate on this further look at Elmsley count.
How many card tricks use it? How many variants of the Elmsley count there are.
Another element is saying you need to get permission from the person who created the DL/TL?

If it's just a trick that involves those types of things I described above, I would just publish the trick and say what moves you're doing, If the trick involves any props, make a second video with the links to a legitimate seller mentioning that video in the current.

I would refrain from publishing a trick you bought!

I am sorry but you are conflating 2 separate issues. Legality and ethics. Technically it isn’t illegal to publish someone else’s trick. But it is highly unethical to do so.

Also the reason moves like Elmsley count and Double Lift are fair game is because they are in public domain. They are so old no one can really claim the rights to them anymore.

It would be like if I decided to just start publishing my own videos teaching every new trick that came out. Would be extremely unethical even if I added my own patter to it.

 

[Spaz]

It would be like if I decided to just start publishing my own videos teaching every new trick that came out. Would be extremely unethical even if I added my own patter to it.

You misunderstood my reply and I was unclear as my reply is from a legal end of things and devoid of anything ethical/moral.

In direct contrast to point 1 of what ikadiallah said, it appears they're asking only about what's legal. The word MOVE was explicitly used in which I replied accordingly. Both his question and my reply have absolutely nothing to do with ethics.

My reply includes the explanation on why anything in the public domain cannot be copyright. (I just didn't use the phrase "Public Domain")

On a side note, just because it's old, does not mean someone cannot claim ownership to it. Disney does this all the time with it's IP. They just have it set to expire so long, that no one alive now, would be alive when the copyright expires. However assuming the copyright law doesn't change, then an heir to Disney would absolutely be able to renew the copyright.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[ID4]

Also the reason moves like Elmsley count and Double Lift are fair game is because they are in public domain. They are so old no one can really claim the rights to them anymore.

The Elmsley count is not in the public domain. It was published in 1959.

 

[Spaz]

The Elmsley count is not in the public domain. It was published in 1959.

It's also why I said what I did. It's a move, and as such, a move on its own cannot be subjected to copyright. It's the same reason why a dance move alone such as pirouette, cannot be subject to copyright.

The only way to copyright things like that would be to incorporate the move into a routine, then copyright the routine.