theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards

So... What do laymen commonly think of us?

S

Seanhawk23

Oct 13, 2008
167
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This thread was closed for lack of internets relevance. However, Sinful brought up a really good point:

This is a legitimate topic to talk about. If we are going to talk about what laymen think of us, at least make it a serious thread. It's a topic I talk about commonly with people.

So I thought I'd do just that. Tell me, what do the laymen think of the common 21st century magician? Are they kooky nerds? Scary p@dos in tophats? Weird David Blaine demons? What have you experienced? How has this changed from generation to generation?
 
Well in my opinion, it's down to personally experience of the layman. For instance, if a layman who had seen alot of close up magicians or street magicians, probably would think of them when the word magician comes up. However many people with no experience, think of magicians as people who wear top hats and pull rabbits out of such hats.
 
aJohnson said:
Well in my opinion, it's down to personally experience of the layman. For instance, if a layman who had seen alot of close up magicians or street magicians, probably would think of them when the word magician comes up. However many people with no experience, think of magicians as people who wear top hats and pull rabbits out of such hats.
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From what I've seen, most of the images in cartoons of magicians were of rabbits in tophats, so that is understandable.
 
Ajohnson has it fairly close to how I've been viewed.

Most people my grandparents age 75-80 and my parents age 55, when they hear the word "magician" they instantly think of the old classic style of tuxedo, top hat, rabbits, magic wand, rope tricks, etc.

Most people my age 31 down to high school I believe think of us more like the David Blaine type style of street magician doing more "up to date" things and not really pulling rabbits out of hats anymore. Heck I don't even use a magic wand.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 25 years to see what evolves or how the image of a magician might change to something a tad different.
 
I agreed with reverhart, we are now changing into a new era of this generation. People in today society see magicians wearing casual clothes in a nowadays like David Blaine.
 
Our own mistake

In my personal experience laymen see modern day magicians as 1 of 5 people. The Scammer, the top hat and tuxedo, A devil worshiper, David Blaine, Or Criss Angel. In my perspective this isn't due to older magicians pulling a rabbit out of a hat or doing a rope trick but it is infact the magic communities fault. Now before you yell and say how are we to blame listen to this. When David Blaine first aired everyone wanted to be like him so they all searched youtube and the internet on free ways to learn magic. That is how most people get into magic. This continued until Criss Angel came out then people started just calling us fakes. This could have been prevented but we show that magicians are fake because 85% of "Magicians" are people who claim to be "Magicians" dont perform for live people. They will learn and effect post it to youtube and pray they get 300,00 views. If everyone who claims to be a magician actually went out and performed, peoples idea of a "magician" would be someone who can do "magic" or someone who can perform a "miracle".

Another problem we have is movies and stuff on tv's. With the Movie business now adays having such amazing graphics people are not as easily entertained as they would be when the grafics were simply a cartton drawn. Due to this it can be very intimidating to try and go out and perform. That is another problem with our industry and comunity. Movies also group a magician as someone with a wand and a long pointy hat. People now adays watch movies such as "Harry Potter" see crazy effect in that and when they see us do something as simple as an ACR they wont respond well because they want to see us pull a wand out and change an apple into an owl or make something move.

Well thats just my opinion =)
 
gambit13 said:
In my personal experience laymen see modern day magicians as 1 of 5 people. The Scammer, the top hat and tuxedo, A devil worshiper, David Blaine, Or Criss Angel. In my perspective this isn't due to older magicians pulling a rabbit out of a hat or doing a rope trick but it is infact the magic communities fault. Now before you yell and say how are we to blame listen to this. When David Blaine first aired everyone wanted to be like him so they all searched youtube and the internet on free ways to learn magic. That is how most people get into magic. This continued until Criss Angel came out then people started just calling us fakes. This could have been prevented but we show that magicians are fake because 85% of "Magicians" are people who claim to be "Magicians" dont perform for live people. They will learn and effect post it to youtube and pray they get 300,00 views. If everyone who claims to be a magician actually went out and performed, peoples idea of a "magician" would be someone who can do "magic" or someone who can perform a "miracle".

Another problem we have is movies and stuff on tv's. With the Movie business now adays having such amazing graphics people are not as easily entertained as they would be when the grafics were simply a cartton drawn. Due to this it can be very intimidating to try and go out and perform. That is another problem with our industry and comunity. Movies also group a magician as someone with a wand and a long pointy hat. People now adays watch movies such as "Harry Potter" see crazy effect in that and when they see us do something as simple as an ACR they wont respond well because they want to see us pull a wand out and change an apple into an owl or make something move.

Well thats just my opinion =)
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While I see your opinion on this topic, I respectfully disagree. It really is true that if you perform your magic well, people will love you, no matter how many Harry Potter movies come out. It is also true that (IMHO) if you DON'T get your spectators telling you that you are the best magician they've ever seen... then you haven't done your job correctly. No matter how "amazing" computer graphics get, I strongly believe that we will ALWAYS be able to connect with (and freak out) our spectators, simply because our experience is the "real thing".

Think about it for a second. When a spectator is watching our magic they realize that it ISN'T in a movie, which is why it's so strong. It truthfully CAN'T happen. And yet it DOES happen. The impossible happens. And that is why they love it. It's LIKE trick photography. But it isn't. So the more our art develops, and the more impossible they look, and the more our "tricks" look like trick photography, the more we'll be received as awesomeness wrapped in amazing.

As for whose fault it is that some people think we are nerds and freaks.... well... we ARE nerds. They caught us there. :D And as for the "freak thing"... Circuses 50 to 100 years ago had all kinds of "freaks" and at least one magician was in every circus... It's no wonder some people think magicians are freaks.

Lastly, I personally haven't had a problem with people thinking I'm odd... Mostly people see me as either a) extremely cool/talented, b) possessing extremely good reflexes, c) possessing incredible dexterity, or d) just being really good at the art of magic. People don't think I'm a freak, in anyway, shape, or form. People love the illusions I show them, and they are very curious about how I got into magic. People like me. And I think the ultimate goal is to connect with people anyways, and not just show them a few good "tricks"...

My opinion.

Respectfully,

-PTG
 
I totally understand what your saying. Just idk with almost everyone only performing for a webcam and putting it up on youtube it just makes the magic die. With the movie effects im not trying to say that we cant amaze anyone just if you think about it there are alot of people will be look "oh ya amazing (exagerated)" Like a good example is horror movies. People cant really get as excited as they normally would about them because there has been alot of stuff about horror that they just straight up dont get entertained by it as much. I do understand what you mean though. Personally 90% of the time i get great reactions. Oh i ment to touch up on this in my last post also but youtube is another reason its really hard to entertain. I mean yes some people dont go home and see if they can figure it out but alot of people will just go home look on youtube see how to do it then they think its lame, so when someone else tries to perform for them they say oh well i've seen how this is done.
 
I didn't want to tell anybody about this, but because it was cancelled due to the inability for me to meet the correct people, I couldn't do it. I was actually going to film a documentary on this exact topic. Had the whole thing planned. Still disappointed I couldn't do it. Wanted to know if I would be proven correct or incorrect Oh well. Someday... :(

Anyway, I believe laymen see us as complete failures at life. Sad, but true. I think magicians are seen as people that didn't do well in school so now they are stuck doing magic tricks. Think about it. Pretend to be a layman for a second, and you're in a restaurant. The magician comes to the table and entertains you for a few minutes, and then leaves to proceed to his next table. The first few minutes would be talk about how amazed you all were.Then you lean over to your future son and say "Billy, do well in school or you'll end up like this, a guy doing magic tricks for people in a restaurant."

There's even evidence in some of the live performances I've seen in magic DVDs. (Buy books! They are better!) In Aaron Fisher's Search and Destroy DVD, you see one of the audience members say "You get payed to do this?" Aaron's response was "I get payed to breathe sister." Sure, it may had been in a kidding voice, but do you think she was really kidding? Maybe. Maybe not. In one of the True Astonishment DVDs, Bro did a performance and one of the people said "WOW! This guy is good!" in a strange tone I cannot put into words. I really see that as "You did a good job entertaining us puppy." There are a few other performances, but I can't think of them right now. I'll put them up if I remember them.

Of course, that's just close-up performers in general I'm talking about. If you're a stage magician and people are paying to see a show, then I think people will accept you as someone with a genuine passion for what you do. (Also, if your name rhymes with Bavid Dlaine, then you also may be looked up to.)

Just my opinion.

-Doug
 
What do laymen think of us? I think your image in the laymen mind is half of what you think of yourself, and therefore project, and the other half is based on the person's perception of what you do and what they glorify in life. They may, like Sinful pointed out, see you as just an entertainer working tables and look down on you and your career because it is not what they would want for themselves.

They may see you as a holy man. I doubt it. You have to do more than a coins across routine to get this kind of perception. And, even if what you are doing is unheard of by anyone and a true magic mircale, if their 50% perception of what you are doing is something they look down upon, you will not win them over to looking up to you. "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who don't none will suffice."- Joseph Dunninger

I think in each individual spectator you perform for, your projected self image manifests itself, knowingly or not, inside the persons mind. If you think you are a freak, I would bet good money that your performance and communication with your audience projects that old circus performer in their minds. If you think you are a intelligent entertainer, perhaps a more scholarly image will be projected of a well educated man who can entertain with his mind.

Some images are easier to accept as real by the audience than others. For instance the demi-god image will be very hard to accept by some, no matter what you do, it is just their own perception that is formulated by previous encounters of such material. Maybe they are atheist and will never believe anything to the contrary, or maybe they are stoned-out-of-their-mind bohemians who are just begging for their next cult leader. Like I said, it is pretty much half and half.

If we want to advance the art, since around half of the perception will be based on the laymen opinion of you, you have to advance the public opinion to accept your form of entertainment. If you want magic to be as mainstream and widely loved as music or movies or literature, then the public opinion must change. A new trick will not advance the art, it can only change the 50% that we hold, and since our own perceptions of the art is already at its peak, it will not do anything.

Change the other half.
 
Sinful said:
Anyway, I believe laymen see us as complete failures at life. Sad, but true. I think magicians are seen as people that didn't do well in school so now they are stuck doing magic tricks. Think about it. Pretend to be a layman for a second, and you're in a restaurant. The magician comes to the table and entertains you for a few minutes, and then leaves to proceed to his next table. The first few minutes would be talk about how amazed you all were.Then you lean over to your future son and say "Billy, do well in school or you'll end up like this, a guy doing magic tricks for people in a restaurant."
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Sad, but I agree. That's probably why some people don't wanna see magic when they're at a restaurant. They think the concept of, "Tricks for tips". As if we're only there to make a quick buck (Somewhat true).

Sinful said:
Bro did a performance and one of the people said "WOW! This guy is good!" in a strange tone I cannot put into words. I really see that as "You did a good job entertaining us puppy." There are a few other performances, but I can't think of them right now. I'll put them up if I remember them.
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I heard the same thing a kid said in a weird tone to his dad about Gazzo. "This guy's good".
Sounds like, "Dance monkey dance".
Maybe that's just me though.
 
Consider who you have in the public eye to represent magicians:

It can range from one extreme to the other.

Celebracadabra: You had Max Maven, Jeff McBride, Franz Herary and Steve Wyrick be the "Guest Magician Judges"... Now, I know you are going to defend these magicians, but you can't defend the fact that even the contestants say things like "Metallica got fat?" about the guest magicians. So point 1: They can't take magicians seriously.

Penn&Teller Bull****: Two guys, who make a point in every episode, even if they cause a bit of commotion on their thoughts on some things, there is no denying they have done their homework: So point 2: Magicians are nerds.

Criss Angel: Now, its no secret that it's very hard for me to say something nice about him. However, he is on TV every week, and let's face it 95% of you want your own TV show like that too. But let's take a closer look. He's almost 50 years old, dresses like he's 19, doesn't look like he showers and comes off like he has money, and wants everyone to know it. Now, like I said I have to respect him for having a TV and live show, but if your uncle/dad/brother/cousin who is almost 50 that plays the guitar and knows a few magic tricks acted like he does... What would you think? Not the best point but point 3: Kind of a douche.

David Blaine: Every time this guy is on TV, the MAJOR NETWORKS make kind of a big deal about it. He looks like a normal everyday guy, but he also has a mysterious quality that the general public kind of yearns for in a "magician". Almost as if the audience is taken off guard with the quiet persona he portrays every time he performs. Point 4: Magicians can be cool or they just might be the quiet loners you stayed away from in high school (can go either way with this one)

David Copperfield: Hasn't had a TV thing in years, but he's still touring and still sells A LOT of tickets. He is famous for dating Claudia Schiffer, having his own personal island and a luxury apartment in the heart of NYC. He has been featured in many magazines for design and art. He dresses the part of an everyday guy and tells great stories. For most of his audiences, he supplies the ultimate magical experience. I know he might be a bit outdated now, but most people of the general population remember David Copperfield as I just described: Point 5: Magicians are smooth, cool and I want to be one.

That's all. I personally think that if TV shows that call for a magician still use people who "dress the part". You are all doomed.

Thats all.

Love,

Katie
 
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