Suicide King:-the revelation

Aug 15, 2017
656
439
Okay...so the thing is I was really intigued by the King of Hearts in the deck which has a knife thru its head.
Theories range from it is actually behind its head to the fact it was a suicide to the murderer is actually queen of spades OR jack of hearts.
They even say that he stabbed himself because Queen of hearts loved Jack of hearts instead, as proved by the design of the cards.
But I really wanted an ALMOST solid theory for this fact.
What do you guys think?


BTW, if, just IF you guys want me to elaborate on the love triangle of the hearts face cards, I will.
Also, if there are any other strange things abt the court cards of a deck, pls also post them here

ALLOW MOI TO EXPAND MY KNOWLEDGE!

Say nothing abt the no. of cards pls, am tired of those...

So? Magic scholars?
 
  • Like
Reactions: clintpotatoes
Aug 25, 2017
172
92
Pittsburgh, PA
Are you looking for a story to tell or are you looking for as much fact as possible? The true history of playing cards and the court cards is ambiguous because of the various cultures they were derived from. If you're not interested in the complete history and only the history starting with the French designs (which became the most popular and inspiration for the current design), then we could go from there.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,749
2,859
If you're looking for a factual thing - the chances are it's just the result of a series of slightly imperfect print runs. If you go back far enough, the sword isn't in his head. It's beside it.
 

Josh Burch

Elite Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,961
1,096
Utah
Okay...so the thing is I was really intigued by the King of Hearts in the deck which has a knife thru its head.
Theories range from it is actually behind its head to the fact it was a suicide to the murderer is actually queen of spades OR jack of hearts.
They even say that he stabbed himself because Queen of hearts loved Jack of hearts instead, as proved by the design of the cards.
But I really wanted an ALMOST solid theory for this fact.
What do you guys think?


BTW, if, just IF you guys want me to elaborate on the love triangle of the hearts face cards, I will.
Also, if there are any other strange things abt the court cards of a deck, pls also post them here

ALLOW MOI TO EXPAND MY KNOWLEDGE!

Say nothing abt the no. of cards pls, am tired of those...

So? Magic scholars?

If you are looking for an already well thought out story that involves some of the card's idiosyncrasies Kostya Kimlat has an effect called Who Killed the King. The trick itself is kinda terrible but the story is intriguing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lord Magic
Aug 6, 2017
254
159
Not sure about the king but interesting fact is that the jack of hearts and jack of spades are the only cards with one eye
 
Jan 26, 2017
2,179
1,337
20
Virginia
Basically, the KoH started with an axe next to him. Slowly, the axe duped and turned horizontal, leaving you with 2 in each hand. Then One of the Axes became a sword, without people noticing the other one. The sword got brought up to the head, nad the axe got erased. It was essentially due to differences from region to region and designing/printing errors.
 
Aug 15, 2017
656
439
Not sure about the king but interesting fact is that the jack of hearts and jack of spades are the only cards with one eye
you ignored the king of diamonds?
They say that the king of diamonds is actually julius ceasar...so as Roman emperor profiles were always made sideways, such as in the coins, the king of diamonds is the only king with one eye.

Maybe you meant those are the only jacks with one eyes?
 
Aug 15, 2017
656
439
Basically, the KoH started with an axe next to him. Slowly, the axe duped and turned horizontal, leaving you with 2 in each hand. Then One of the Axes became a sword, without people noticing the other one. The sword got brought up to the head, nad the axe got erased. It was essentially due to differences from region to region and designing/printing errors.
Hmmm... I guess the truth is always less interesting!

Thanx tho!
 
Aug 15, 2017
656
439
Are you looking for a story to tell or are you looking for as much fact as possible? The true history of playing cards and the court cards is ambiguous because of the various cultures they were derived from. If you're not interested in the complete history and only the history starting with the French designs (which became the most popular and inspiration for the current design), then we could go from there.
I guess am interested only in factual history...
But don't legends always have a basis in fact?
:)
And that is quoting Hermione Granger...the smartest witch of her age
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,749
2,859
Legends do generally have a basis in fact, but that basis might not be anywhere near what actually happened.

The sword was beside his head. Successive print errors nudged it to the side until it looks like it's in his head.
 
Aug 6, 2017
254
159
you ignored the king of diamonds?
They say that the king of diamonds is actually julius ceasar...so as Roman emperor profiles were always made sideways, such as in the coins, the king of diamonds is the only king with one eye.

Maybe you meant those are the only jacks with one eyes?
correct meant jacks
 
Aug 25, 2017
172
92
Pittsburgh, PA
I guess am interested only in factual history...
But don't legends always have a basis in fact?
:)
And that is quoting Hermione Granger...the smartest witch of her age
Christopher nailed it. The myths/legends of playing card designs are based on facts but because of (basically) the "grapevine" concept, those things have been retracted, embellished, changed, etc. All keeping a foundation but still vastly changing until they became fantasy notions based on real history.

Also as Christopher said, the sword used to be beside his head, not in it. Prior to that, it wasn't even a sword but an axe. The story of Charles VII committing suicide is incorrect. Charles VII actually starved to death, albeit likely in a state of depression and loneliness (due to the actual story surrounding his death.) He was however the only King represented on a deck of cards that lived to see himself on a deck of cards (though playing cards were around long before that).

For the most part, the current court card designs we are used to, were inspired by French design. Each court card representing real Kings, Queens and Knights. While I'm sure stories can be created around this, for the most part, the real stories are less intriguing and in some cases, the royalty some of the cards represent, had no connection to one another.

I know the number information you're referring to (4 suits = 4 seasons, 52 cards = 52 weeks, etc ,etc). I always hear these as well and even use it sometimes in story telling (primarily because even though we as magicians hear the story all the time, the average non-magician hasn't). Ramsay actually added something intriguing to the number concept however, that I wasn't aware of. I haven't tried it yet, but according to him, the number 8 plays a semi-significant role as well. He says if you take a deck of cards in perfect factory order and riffle shuffle them (perfectly...one card on top of one card, etc) 8 times, they will return to factory order.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,749
2,859
He says if you take a deck of cards in perfect factory order and riffle shuffle them (perfectly...one card on top of one card, etc) 8 times, they will return to factory order.

Correct. A perfect out Faro I believe it's called, 8 times in a row, will put the deck back in order. I kind of compulsively do this with every deck I open, and only really start to use the deck when I can't easily continue doing perfect Faros.
 
Aug 15, 2017
656
439
Christopher nailed it. The myths/legends of playing card designs are based on facts but because of (basically) the "grapevine" concept, those things have been retracted, embellished, changed, etc. All keeping a foundation but still vastly changing until they became fantasy notions based on real history.

Also as Christopher said, the sword used to be beside his head, not in it. Prior to that, it wasn't even a sword but an axe. The story of Charles VII committing suicide is incorrect. Charles VII actually starved to death, albeit likely in a state of depression and loneliness (due to the actual story surrounding his death.) He was however the only King represented on a deck of cards that lived to see himself on a deck of cards (though playing cards were around long before that).

For the most part, the current court card designs we are used to, were inspired by French design. Each court card representing real Kings, Queens and Knights. While I'm sure stories can be created around this, for the most part, the real stories are less intriguing and in some cases, the royalty some of the cards represent, had no connection to one another.

I know the number information you're referring to (4 suits = 4 seasons, 52 cards = 52 weeks, etc ,etc). I always hear these as well and even use it sometimes in story telling (primarily because even though we as magicians hear the story all the time, the average non-magician hasn't). Ramsay actually added something intriguing to the number concept however, that I wasn't aware of. I haven't tried it yet, but according to him, the number 8 plays a semi-significant role as well. He says if you take a deck of cards in perfect factory order and riffle shuffle them (perfectly...one card on top of one card, etc) 8 times, they will return to factory order.
yup...saw that vid
 
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results