theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards

Visual Aspect // Prophet and Extreme Burn

I like the way that both of the effects look, but to be honest I like the way Prophet looks a lot more. Just a style thing for me. It looks a lot cleaner to me in some of the takes, but I do admit that some of the takes look exactly the same.

-Cyrus
 
Extreme Burn looks great, I like it. But Prophet looks like Pure Real Magic. In person it looks like a camera effect. I'm not crazy about the end over end flip with EB.. it looks just like some hundy500 handling I've seen for over a year now, I always thought it looks like changing the pages of a book, which is NOT what you want it to look like. Prophet is the 1st instant complete face change without having to hold the bills length wise. It looks more natural to instantly count the bills the SAME WAY A TELLER would at the bank, and it's as fast as lightning and CLEAN. You Instantly see a front and back bill spread. I'd like both, but Prophet 1st.
 
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In all seriousness they both look completely insane. I can't really pick between the two of them. I have always been a fan of the plot and the various routines that have come out around the bill changes mostly because it uses common objects that people are used to seeing.

I am going to wait and hear from a few people who might have bought both before deciding and give both guys a fair shot at taking my hard earned cash for their work. I have never been a fan of snatching up whoever hits the market first with similar routines.

Both look incredible and it is going to be hard as hell to decide which to ultimately go with in the end.

edit: I am leaning towards Tom's right now mainly because I just watched both of their video's about 15 times a piece. There is something in Richard's that I don't like that doesn't happen in Tom's change. Its very minor and I am sure maybe 1 in 100 spectators would notice it and maybe say something but it might be enough to convince me to go with Tom's version. I am not going to say what it is because I believe it digs at the method and I realize Richard has 9 different ways to do the switch as well so it's still sorta in the air.

They are not the same for those who think they are and if you watch both demo video's fairly closely you will see the difference between the two.

--Jim
 
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jimbowmanjr said:
In all seriousness they both look completely insane. I can't really pick between the two of them. I have always been a fan of the plot and the various routines that have come out around the bill changes mostly because it uses common objects that people are used to seeing.

I am going to wait and hear from a few people who might have bought both before deciding and give both guys a fair shot at taking my hard earned cash for their work. I have never been a fan of snatching up whoever hits the market first with similar routines.

Both look incredible and it is going to be hard as hell to decide which to ultimately go with in the end.

edit: I am leaning towards Tom's right now mainly because I just watched both of their video's about 15 times a piece. There is something in Richard's that I don't like that doesn't happen in Tom's change. Its very minor and I am sure maybe 1 in 100 spectators would notice it and maybe say something but it might be enough to convince me to go with Tom's version. I am not going to say what it is because I believe it digs at the method and I realize Richard has 9 different ways to do the switch as well so it's still sorta in the air.

They are not the same for those who think they are and if you watch both demo video's fairly closely you will see the difference between the two.

--Jim
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I think I know exactly what you don't like about EB.. =) I agree
 
Honestly, if I was a lay person and someone showed to me Extreme Burn, I'd be amazed. Then if I ask him to do it again and he performs Prophet instead, I'd be equally amazed and honestly think that he just did the same thing.

That's how similar Prophet and Extreme Burn are to me. I guess that it doesn't make much of a difference to a lay person in regards to the visual change itself; we find the difference in how the method works and how convenient it is for magicians to do it. I think we are the only one who cares about this, and our preference lies in the method and subtle changes. Whether you hold it lenghtwise or not, the spectator wouldn't really notice or care as long as the bills change just as visually.

It's just like some of the Torn and Restored routines out there. People only see the fact that the card was torn and it was restored but there are many ways to do it. These are mostly true of course, assuming that the spectator is a lay person without prior knowledge to magic and is there to be entertained by the effect.

Really, both effects are very good. I watched both a few times already and I can see them having a great impact on the spectators. (Holding 4 $1 bills to pay for a $400 product at the cashier and he looks at you like :mad:. You proceed to casually do Prophet or EB to change the bills to total $400, then he goes :eek: @$!%!! And then you smile like :cool:

We'll just have to wait and see what Prophet has to offer so they can be compared together.
 
iq92 said:
Honestly, if I was a lay person and someone showed to me Extreme Burn, I'd be amazed. Then if I ask him to do it again and he performs Prophet instead, I'd be equally amazed and honestly think that he just did the same thing.

That's how similar Prophet and Extreme Burn are to me. I guess that it doesn't make much of a difference to a lay person in regards to the visual change itself; we find the difference in how the method works and how convenient it is for magicians to do it. I think we are the only one who cares about this, and our preference lies in the method and subtle changes. Whether you hold it lenghtwise or not, the spectator wouldn't really notice or care as long as the bills change just as visually.
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I hear what you're saying.. but I know for a fact that the more casual and natural to what a "lay person" is use to seeing, it's just that much more convincing. I have not seen EB in person. I can tell you Prophet starts VERY clean.. changes are clean.. ends clean. Nothing at ALL looks unnatural. The flipping end over end to me has always seemed obvious to a quick witty person.

I don't know the exact method for EB.. and I do really like it as well. But style wise it doesn't come close to the "Freakin Cool" factor I had when I saw prophet. I just didn't get too excited watching slow burn or extreme burn.. but said "holy crap.. wait.. wait do it again" when I saw prophet because the bills stay so static.

I've seen Tom do this with 360' spectators burning from every angle.. it's just way way too fast period. Even when they're watching for it they can't see it. The psychological tricks that he plays are down to the T. He has all kinds of tips and secrets from performing hundreds of real world trials. This version you don't even have to talk imo.. it speaks on it's own.
 
Wow! Thanks for the link to the REAL prophet demo. That was very tight!

From a layman perspective (like some posters above me mentioned) EB and prophet are going to look equally magical. The material taught in the DVD (ie. how many ways to perform, tips AKA value for $$ ) will be a big consideration factor.

jimbowmanjr mentioned the 'something' in EB but if i guessed correctly, i don't think it bothers me that much but then again, prophet, if i did not see wrongly, Tom did not do 'that'. It's a subtlety thing but still very neat. I'm no expert but It may mean that the method is different from EB. Will have to read the reviews to make a better decision.
 
Hey, guys. I own Extreme Burn. There is a handling on the dvd that is not on the demo that is almost identical to Prophet. It called the Underground Handling. I think Tom independetly created the same thing.

Extreme Burn is an excellent dvd which covers many different handlings for the same gimmick. And for those of you who don't know Richard Sanders, you should. His stuff is killer and usually very easy to do.

I'm sure Prophet is terrific but it looks a lot like Extreme Burn (In fact, I'm almost willing to bet money that the methods are identical). And Extreme Burn was out first. Some sorting out might need to be done. Of course this is all just speculation.
 
sean said:
Wow! Thanks for the link to the REAL prophet demo. That was very tight!

From a layman perspective (like some posters above me mentioned) EB and prophet are going to look equally magical. The material taught in the DVD (ie. how many ways to perform, tips AKA value for $$ ) will be a big consideration factor.

jimbowmanjr mentioned the 'something' in EB but if i guessed correctly, i don't think it bothers me that much but then again, prophet, if i did not see wrongly, Tom did not do 'that'. It's a subtlety thing but still very neat. I'm no expert but It may mean that the method is different from EB. Will have to read the reviews to make a better decision.
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Sean,

I would agree and I honestly think maybe 1 in 100 spectators 'might' notice and even then 'might' say something. The real issue comes down to me as the performer and believing in what I am doing and selling it as believable to my audience. If I think there is a hitch in something it will bug me during a performance and ultimately I would probably drop it if it couldn't be avoided or changed/fixed.

Just me and my nitpicking....

--Jim
 
Based on the Youtube video, I do not believe that EB and Prophet have the same method. I love EB, and have been using it daily. The way Tom counts/shows the bills in Prophet is pretty darn clean though, and leads me to think that it's a different method from EB. Won't know for sure until it comes out though!
 
Kevin, if you own Extreme Burnn, how can you say they are not the same?!? Did you watch The Underground handling? It's EXACTLY the same visually. Counts and all.

Look, I don't know Tom's handling, but I think there are only so many ways to accomplish this effect...
 
Cameron Francis said:
Kevin, if you own Extreme Burnn, how can you say they are not the same?!? Did you watch The Underground handling? It's EXACTLY the same visually. Counts and all.

Look, I don't know Tom's handling, but I think there are only so many ways to accomplish this effect...
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Hey Cameron,

Thanks for coming over here to try and clear some things up. Is there any way that you could post a performance video of the Underground Handling of Extreme Burn? That might go a long way in shining some light on the situation...
 
Mesmer, I don't have a gimmick made up at the moment. Plus, I don't like to post videos of other people's effects. I will say this, though, look at the EB demo. There are a lot of variations. Check out the one at the 1:10 mark. While it's not exactly the same as Prophet, it's darn close.

The Underground handling was added to the dvd at the last minute. Richard said he was going to keep it to himself but decided to pt it in anyway just before the dvd was set to be replicated. That's why it's not in the demo.

Like I said before, I'm just speculating. But if they are indeed the same, method wise, that would certainly need to be addressed.
 
Cameron Francis said:
Mesmer, I don't have a gimmick made up at the moment. Plus, I don't like to post videos of other people's effects. I will say this, though, look at the EB demo. There are a lot of variations. Check out the one at the 1:10 mark. While it's not exactly the same as Prophet, it's darn close.

The Underground handling was added to the dvd at the last minute. Richard said he was going to keep it to himself but decided to pt it in anyway just before the dvd was set to be replicated. That's why it's not in the demo.

Like I said before, I'm just speculating. But if they are indeed the same, method wise, that would certainly need to be addressed.
Click to expand...

I see your point... For anyone who's wondering, you can see what Cameron is talking about by watching this video at the 1:10 mark.
 
I promise you guys it's NOT the same. Tom's is by FAR cleaner and has almost zero angle restrictions and zero "count" restrictions. Now that I know that "something" and watched EG again.. it's driving me crazy because it appears it has to be done with ALL of the changes, big selling point that Prophet is NOT restricted like that. Also I'd like to point out prophet changes faces to faces.. which is what "Real" magic would look like, not faces to back or vice versa. Also Prophet is 5 bills to 5 bills. I'm not trying to dog on EB.. just pointing out some differences.
 
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