Why are Jason England's downloads so expensive?

Jan 26, 2008
419
1
Sweden
Jasons downloads here on theory11 is extreamly cheap for what your getting. Hes one of the greatest at what he does and with the information he shares with you that he has gatherd in over 20 years of hard work he can help you be that great too.

Most magicians dont think about it, be we are extreamly lucky that people like Jason England share.

Just look at music, does some of the best share what they do? No. And i dont even want to think about what the price would be to get an A list guitar player to teach you how to play.
 
Well, I obviously struck a chord among some people..

Just to be clear.. I was not bashing Jason England and even acknowledged his vast experience and skill.. All I was saying, is that I thought that his 1-on-1s are overpriced.. and I still do.. but it's my opinion and all of you made some really great points and I listened to them whole heartedly... In the end.. I guess I am just cheap or don't value some things in the same way.. anyways.. I didn't mean to get everyone so riled up.. LOL..
 
Dec 28, 2008
132
1
I just got his Double Lift 1on1, mine needs a LOT of work, and may I just say, I am extremely impressed. He goes into the history of each double, and recommends books and other sources for further reading. The amount of detail he goes into is astounding, well worth whatever I payed.
 
Sep 6, 2009
285
0
Cincinnati
Break out a DVD you already own at random. I picked one up myself--there are 4 effects on there. The DVD set me back $35.

So breaking it down, that is roughly $8.75 per effect. Not far off from the price point of some of these 1on1s.

The problem lies in the fact that we live in a society where everything is within our grasps. As stated before, legends of the past had to travel cross country just to learn a single sleight. Now we have little kids complaining that $10 is way too much for a 1on1 that teaches you YEARS of gathered information and knowledge.

But no worries, soon enough, hair will start to grow in places you thought not possible. Your voice will suddenly crack and get deeper. Your face will break out with zits. And eventually, once that has all come and gone, you will have a better appreciation for magic and all of the greats of the past and the present to come.

Mike

I opened Jay Sankey's Kaleidoscope. 30 effects, $25. That's $0.83 an effect.

But whatever, I'm done with this whole Jason England thing. He's an excellent card handler, and is spectacular at many sleights. I'm not fond of the way he does some stuff, but nobody's perfect.
 

Mike.Hankins

creator / <a href="http://www.theory11.com/tricks/
Nov 21, 2009
435
0
Sacramento, Cali
I opened Jay Sankey's Kaleidoscope. 30 effects, $25. That's $0.83 an effect.

But whatever, I'm done with this whole Jason England thing. He's an excellent card handler, and is spectacular at many sleights. I'm not fond of the way he does some stuff, but nobody's perfect.

Funny how you chose such a DVD that has so many items on it. For the most part, you will not get a DVD with that many effects for so little in cost. I know that and so do you.

This actually has nothing at all to do with Jason England any longer. This now has to do with people who complain because THEY think a DVD, Book or download, is way overpriced. It quite frankly angers me.

If you want to complain, then find another hobby. If you are a true SERIOUS student in the art, you will be one of the ones who buy and support this evergrowing artform without running the suck.

Mike
 
Sep 6, 2009
285
0
Cincinnati
Well, If I asked you to pay $20 for a pad of flash paper, you wouldn't, right? You also wouldn't pay $5 for a Vernet Thumb Tip. These things are commodities that can be overpriced, simply because they're objects who's worth can be set to a specific value.

When you get into books and DVDs, we're not comparing the physical material, we're comparing the knowledge, the intellectual property. In that case, it's hard to define whether something is worth its's price or not. It's all down to opinion.

So yes, many things are overpriced in people's opinions. It's factually incorrect to say everything is overpriced, while at the same time it's incorrect to saying everything is underpriced.

So... I think we've hit a brick wall, where we realize we're both right.. and wrong. And at this point we settle with our own opinions, and carry on with life. :D
 

Casey Rudd

Director of Operations
Team member
Jun 5, 2009
3,125
3,024
Charleston, SC
www.instagram.com
This thread has kind of gotten out of hand in my opinion. I think after the 3rd page,he kind of got the idea of what everyone was saying, then it exploded into an argument. How about this, if you don't have anything nice to say about the person, do not even say it at all. I know its a cliché, but it works and prevents unwanted attention and arguments. I'm just throwing in my 2 cents here, because I don't like to see us magicians argue over something so minuscule. So let's just say that if you don't like the price, then for all means don't buy it! It's as simple as that, no need to start a thread to complain. And Mike, I want to see what Criss Angel has in store NOW!

Cheers,

Casey
 
Hey Mike,

I just wanted to let you know I am a serious student of the art of magic and spend a ton of money and maybe that is were I am forming my opinion from. You know, if you spend a lot of money and sometimes you get sticker shock. I sorry if my opinion angers you.. it's my opinion.. I was not trying to complain but just get some reasons behind the price, which I felt was overpriced.. I rarely make comments like this but at the time, I just felt like saying something . Everyone here including you has made some good points.. in fact, I have bought several of yours and Jason's downloads.. so... I mean.. I think this thing got blown way out.. Sorry if you felt offended or anyone else reading these.. This is my last post..
 

Mike.Hankins

creator / <a href="http://www.theory11.com/tricks/
Nov 21, 2009
435
0
Sacramento, Cali
Hey Mike,

I just wanted to let you know I am a serious student of the art of magic and spend a ton of money and maybe that is were I am forming my opinion from. You know, if you spend a lot of money and sometimes you get sticker shock. I sorry if my opinion angers you.. it's my opinion.. I was not trying to complain but just get some reasons behind the price, which I felt was overpriced.. I rarely make comments like this but at the time, I just felt like saying something . Everyone here including you has made some good points.. in fact, I have bought several of yours and Jason's downloads.. so... I mean.. I think this thing got blown way out.. Sorry if you felt offended or anyone else reading these.. This is my last post..

This was not a thrash out at you. Not am I angry with you. It is the magic community in general.

Half of the time, magicians see an effect and are blown away. They are so excited with how the trick/effect looks and pay the price no matter what the cost is. Then they learn the method or see the gimmick involved, and then become pissed off and then say "that's it??!? $xx for THIS?" That's part of the game. How many were dissatisfied with the method behind Control?

A valid point was made about price points and if one thing is overpriced vs underpriced. But at the same time, there are DVDs, books and even 1on1s out there that I have no interest in buying because it doesn't fit me nor my performing style. I look at it like this:

If I buy the DVD, On The Pass, it is only because I want to learn how to do a pass, and do it well. Chances are I already have Royal Road and Card College. But for a move that I want to really perfect, I will gather up as much information as possible on that move. That wad I have a number of different resources available to me at any given time.

I understand that some people may have an issue throwing out $5-10 for one sleight, but also consider your sources. Dan and Dave have Dave Williamson teaching his version of the Top Change. His handling is one of the best out there. However, he also teaches the move on his At The Farm DVD. So why do I have the DVD AND the download? Well, to be honest, Mr. Williamson teaches a LOT on that DVD and I wanted to be able load up something that gets right to the point. When I watch the DVD, I wanna watch all of it because it is that entertaining.

Maybe I am rambling on, but I hope maybe this post had some substance to it.

But in reality, it is the simple fact of what YOU want and what YOU think is worth the price to pay. Again it was just frustration earlier. My badddddddd...

Mike
 
Jan 15, 2009
5
0
Jasons' 1on1's may be expensive, but they are totally worth the extra couple of dollars. He goes through everything in so much detail it's hard not to learn what he's teaching! Trust me they are worth it!

-Matty
 
Dec 14, 2007
817
2
First, you can't pull this "let's agree to disagree" or "all opinions are equal" nonsense. They aren't - for two reasons, one practical and one philosophical.

Anyone who claims that "all opinions are equal" is either an idiot or a hypocrite. (This also goes for people who suggest you can't say one approach to magic is better than another.)

Here's why:

Privileging one world view above another (saying "this" is better than "that") is called a hierarchy - this idea is better than that idea. Many people - some on this thread - have suggested that it is wrong to privilege one world view over another, that all opinions are equal.

While this may sound loving, it is hypocritical.

"All opinions are equal" is a worldview, an opinion, an idea. The opposite worldview/opinion/idea is "some opinions are better than others."

Saying "all opinions are equal" creates the hierarchy that "all opinions are equal" is a better worldview than "not all opinions are equal." In other words - "this" is better than "that."

They are saying that 'non-hierarchies' are better than 'hierarchies' which is in itself A HIERARCHY!

as you go through college you will hear many people try to convince you that it is wrong to privilege one world view over another. They will argue for cultural relativity.

I honestly don't care what you choose to believe.

BUT don't believe it because "it's wrong to privilege one world view over another."

That is called a performative contradiction and is just bad logic.

2) If you need further proof that not all opinions are equal - consider the following: You are throwing up, your nose is bleeding, you are about to passout, and a green rash is growing from your armpits.

Who do you go to for help, the guy who hasn't graduated from highschool and spends his life playing video games in his mom's basement OR a doctor who has actually studie medicine and has been vetted by a national organization.

Ultimately both people are going to give you their opinion.

But I think you realize there is a difference in these opinions - one is a VALID opinion, and the other is not.

That's the problem with these forums. Everyone has an opinion, but few of them are valid by any definition.

How can you compare what something is "worth" without knowing the context of value within the community? How does it compare to books? Other downloads? Other forms of instruction? How does it compare to similar items offered 5 years ago, ten years ago.

a 10 gig memory stick may seem expensive to you - but some of us remember when 256K cost more than a month's rent!

Without perspective, without data, without experience to back them up - these "opinions" are worthless.

You may be entitled to them - but that doesn't make them valid.

So - don't tell us we have to agree to disagree.

We don't HAVE to do anything.

Unless you can back up your opinion, it's worthless -

ah, cruel irony
 
Sep 13, 2009
90
0
26
Brooklyn, NY
Before I start, just know that I have not read through every post in this thread, I am just commenting based on the headline, and topic.

According to your standards, why buy it at all? I mean doesnt the title itself give away the method(for some of them)? What is a bottom deal? You deal the bottom card! What is a center deal? You deal a card from the center! What is a strike second deal? You strike deal the second card! That is pretty much all the information you will get from an inexperienced teacher. The same thing with knowing the secret of a magic trick, and knowing how to pull it off in front of a critical spectator and avoid suspicion, let alone detection. Anyone can tell you HOW to do a double lift, or an Elmsley Count, but will you actually be able to perform it? I can guaruntee you that you will not.

So, you are not just buying a method. You are buying a technique. And if you USE the technique, then in the long run, you will agree that spending the extra 10 dollars was not such a big deal.
 
As I see it, these videos are just fundamentals... Theory 11 is trying to give beginners (which happen to flock to sites like this and Ellusionist) a place to start. And start right. 15$ is nothing compared to what you get, and if you can't appreciate that then just don't buy it.
 
Dec 18, 2009
399
1
As I see it, these videos are just fundamentals... Theory 11 is trying to give beginners (which happen to flock to sites like this and Ellusionist) a place to start. And start right. 15$ is nothing compared to what you get, and if you can't appreciate that then just don't buy it.

I don't think these most of the 1 on 1s are meant for beginners...The bottom deal will take about a year to look good, the center deal maybe 3-6, etc. By "Foundations" I think they mean the essentials, or neccessities, used in many gambling routines and a few tricks.

In response to the original post... There is almost no digital way to learn most of jasons material. No videos, Dvds, other than demonstrations and very brief explanations. You'd have to dust off a copy of eatct or expert card technique. Or, you could spend lord knows how much to fly out and meet people like Steve Forte or Richard Turner. Not to mention getting them to trust you enough to teach you.
 
Sep 1, 2007
586
0
Cornwall
Its already been said, and its simple, first decide if you will need the move, if its something that suits you. Then if you want it, go tug on your mothers dress to get her to buy it for you. Otherwise, dont get it...ive only baught 2 1on1's in like 3 years, because most of the stuff i have 0 interest in.

But on a different note, some theme is sortve bothering me. Its the arguement of "well back in the day, they had to fly here and there, in their grandparents pj's, in 5 feet of snow" etc

Please don't compare "back then" to now, its 2 different worlds.
 
Feb 16, 2009
217
0
South Bend, IN
Its already been said, and its simple, first decide if you will need the move, if its something that suits you. Then if you want it, go tug on your mothers dress to get her to buy it for you. Otherwise, dont get it...ive only baught 2 1on1's in like 3 years, because most of the stuff i have 0 interest in.

But on a different note, some theme is sortve bothering me. Its the arguement of "well back in the day, they had to fly here and there, in their grandparents pj's, in 5 feet of snow" etc

Please don't compare "back then" to now, its 2 different worlds.

The argument about the then and now is not just a simple direct comparison. It points to the same thing Brad Henderson was talking about.

How can you compare what something is "worth" without knowing the context of value within the community?

Back in the old days, people did not mind the expense of traveling to far flung places to learn a single move. Sometimes they would have to search for months to get access to a closely guarded secret. This is true of even the legends in magic (as illustrated by Vernon's search for Allen Kennedy to learn the center deal).

Today, you have access to such secrets in the comfort of your home, at the click of a mouse. If you still feel that $10 for 30-45 minutes of instruction on a difficult move is expensive, your opinion is at odds with most of the community.

Ultimately, you need to spend a good amount of money, time and effort in order to be a great magician. You are free to spend these things as you see fit, but you must realize why several people disagreed with the sentiment of the OP in the first place.
 

S.G

Feb 9, 2010
664
1
Guys,
I think he gets it now. A lot of stuff is just being repeated. I have seen the exact same argument like 8 times.

-G
 
Dec 14, 2007
817
2
But on a different note, some theme is sortve bothering me. Its the arguement of "well back in the day, they had to fly here and there, in their grandparents pj's, in 5 feet of snow" etc

Please don't compare "back then" to now, its 2 different worlds.

Are they?

Maybe they are the same, but because of where you are standing, you just can't see it.

This is a discussion about the value of information. How can you divorce the value of that information from the cost required to obtain it?

This isn't a case of someone watching someone elses dvd and parroting it on their own. If that were the case, I would agree with you.

No, this is someone who has spent years of his life and thousands of dollars finding, collecting, assimilating, analyzing and synthesizing this information. Where did he get it - well, he walked up hill - both ways.

If someone hands you 50 rare jewels, I suppose I can see how you might be inclined to use them to line a fish bowl or give them away. Afterall, you have no investment, no sacrifice in obtaining them. They were just handed to you.

But what if you were the guy who went into the mines everyday, lost a finger from a pick, toiled every hour in order to find just one rare nugget? What if you had to pay for all that equipment, your contractors, and all that went into maintaining that mine?

Don't you think you might see a little more 'value' in the item, want a little bit more, for your work and investment?

But before answering, ask yourself - what if jason decided not to share his work at any price? That would be his perogative, yes?

Where would you be?

Could you just snag another digital download that contained the wisdom culled from rare books dating back hundreds of years, the collected wisdom of some of the finest card handlers in the world, and a masterly demonstration of each of the moves you want to learn?

Oh right - that doesn't exist. And for it to exist - someone has to go down into the mine and work their ass off.

Are you volunteering?

After a day or two, you might begin to realize Any price is too cheap

That was true then and its still true today.

.Real information is not handed out to people who just ask. Not then - and not now.

It may seem like it, but that's because you are very lucky and very unlucky all at the same time.

There is more copying and derivitive work being produced now than ever before. When something is given to you cheaply, its easy to treat it cheaply. And thus another one trick dvd based on some other guys crappy version of a trick that at one time was pretty good when it first appeared in print 20 years ago hits the market.

Easy come, easy go.

This is glass that is being pawned off as diamonds and sold - so kind of them - at cubic zirconiam prices.

But ultimately, it's still glass.

But what of those people who worked hard on their ideas?
What of the people who have truly mined the diamonds?

Well, You probably haven't heard of most of them. They know that the value of any good idea is more than the cost of having a decades (that's right, a decades) worth of work trivialized into another torrent to trade like baseball cards. As one poster cleverly pointed out 'Heck, the name tells you the move, what more do you need?' (And for many, that may not be what they need, but honestly, its all the really want!)

it's not suprising then that people who do not know the difference between what is valuable and what is trivia cannot understand why others are offended.

They are also the last to realize how their words and actions keep the diamonds out of reach. Why should some offer their jewels before a group who is going to dismiss the product of their work as 'overpriced' when they demonstrate they have NO IDEA of the investments required to procure it.
but why think about that, when you have a fishbowl lined with jewels.
 
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