You used your sleeves

[Lord Magic]

No there isn't.

I point this out not to be a jerk, but because that mentality is a problem for developing your performances.

"There's always that one guy" equates to, "There's no benefit to improving because someone will still say these things."

And that's an insidious thought. That's the thinking that results in mediocre magic.

And the thing is, I don't ever get those kinds of comments. No one tries to guess methods (out loud) at my shows or close up performances. I believe this is largely because I have structured the performance and scripting in such a way to remove any kind of challenge or "Me Vs. Them" attitude that a lot of magic shows have. I make my audiences understand that this is a cooperative journey, and if they just listen to me and do what I say, they will get to have amazing experiences with me.

If people are consistently asking about methods, then something in the performance is telling them that their job in this moment is to figure out your method, and your job is to conceal the method from them. You have the power to change that interpretation.

I personally feel there are some who are just too insecure. They hate the fact (or at least, if hate is a strong word, then vehemently dislike) that someone ELSE is getting all the attention EVEN if your persona SCREAMS out that "Hey, we all are experiencing this TOGETHER, it is not all about me!"
Let the sleeping dogs lie?

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I'd like to respectfully disagree as there are just some people who can't enjoy magic and are looking for the method, regardless of the performance. They're usually hecklers and they're pretty rare, but it happens. Some people are just jerks and because they "know" magic isn't real, they ruin it for themselves and often the rest of the audience.

This is a different thing all together.

What I am specifically talking about is the phrase, "There will always be that one guy".

Always. In every performance.

Yes, there are some people who just don't get it, and won't engage in a magic performance of any sort. For whatever reason, they just won't do it. These are extremely rare. In ten years of doing magic, I've had 1, possibly 2, people that just absolutely refused to get into it on any level, where it wasn't my fault.

Those people are not worth worrying about. They are such a small percentage that you can safely ignore them once you've identified them. They will not engage so it's pointless to waste your energy on them.

But to take that extremely rare example and say, "Every audience will have one of those, so there's no point in fixing that part of the performance" is doing yourself, and your audiences, a disservice.

I always look to my own performance first, when things don't go as I'd like them to. If the reactions aren't where I want them, what can I do to amp it up? How can I change the blocking or the scripting to make it more mysterious? How can I hint at the truth I am about to reveal, so they have a moment to consider how impossible or incredible it may be? I am always the first place I look for a fault, and only once I've eliminated everything I could have changed, do I consider that the audience member may be the problem.

Don't worry so much about their exact words, but what they are pointing out is worth examining.

 

[Antonio Diavolo]

This is a different thing all together.

What I am specifically talking about is the phrase, "There will always be that one guy".

Always. In every performance.

Yes, there are some people who just don't get it, and won't engage in a magic performance of any sort. For whatever reason, they just won't do it. These are extremely rare. In ten years of doing magic, I've had 1, possibly 2, people that just absolutely refused to get into it on any level, where it wasn't my fault.

Those people are not worth worrying about. They are such a small percentage that you can safely ignore them once you've identified them. They will not engage so it's pointless to waste your energy on them.

But to take that extremely rare example and say, "Every audience will have one of those, so there's no point in fixing that part of the performance" is doing yourself, and your audiences, a disservice.

I always look to my own performance first, when things don't go as I'd like them to. If the reactions aren't where I want them, what can I do to amp it up? How can I change the blocking or the scripting to make it more mysterious? How can I hint at the truth I am about to reveal, so they have a moment to consider how impossible or incredible it may be? I am always the first place I look for a fault, and only once I've eliminated everything I could have changed, do I consider that the audience member may be the problem.

Don't worry so much about their exact words, but what they are pointing out is worth examining.

Ohhh okay. Then you're right. I agree. Misunderstood you.

 

[Al e Cat Dabra]

For generations people have had this preconceived notion about magicians using their sleeves. Just like they often say, "The hand is quicker than the eye." (And maybe that's true, because otherwise you would never see anyone with a black eye). For the most part I think that if we have short sleeves or roll them up, like Darwin Ortiz and others do, it will quash a lot of the suspicion for the great majority of spectators and make our feats that much more impressive. (I think more of a concern for magicians than mentalists, though).

Anyway, if you get someone who says you must have used your sleeves, in a way it's a compliment. It means that they had no clue how you pulled off the effect, that it was clean with no flashing, and that they were completely baffled. Now, I certainly agree with those that say fooling people should not be the primary goal or focus, and that entertaining them and having a great presentation is most important. But this is after all, magic, and so it's kind of important that what we do is mystifying.

I remember seeing magician Jeff Hobson once, and he used the line, "You people believe it's up my sleeves - well I say, up yours!" LOL. I would not personally use that line or recommend it to anyone, especially if children are present, but it kind of fit his unique performing character.

Years ago, I learned a routine from a Roger Klause DVD (what an excellent and creative close-up performer!) It was called "Sponge and Sleeve," I believe. The effect is a sponge ball is produced from up the spectator's sleeve and then vanished (with the help of a TT). Very strong and entertaining, and the perfect thing to go into if someone makes a comment about using your sleeves, where you can say, "I don't use my sleeves, I actually use yours." Now that I would recommend!

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

That reminds me of a lecture I went to. It was Shoot Ogawa. Afterward we were chatting with him, and he was showing us some stuff using the muscle pass. During it, he actually muscle passed a coin up -my- sleeve. If I hadn't been wearing a bracelet with a metal clasp, I would not have noticed it - and then, I only noticed because of the "ting!" - never felt it.

 

[Antonio Diavolo]

That reminds me of a lecture I went to. It was Shoot Ogawa. Afterward we were chatting with him, and he was showing us some stuff using the muscle pass. During it, he actually muscle passed a coin up -my- sleeve. If I hadn't been wearing a bracelet with a metal clasp, I would not have noticed it - and then, I only noticed because of the "ting!" - never felt it.

That's awesome

 

[lseriani]

Hey, everyone. This has so far been a really interesting conversation, thanks for all the input. I kinda wish I would have worded my original comment differently but in a way I am happy because it has brought apoun interesting ideas.

 

[JoshL8]

No there isn't.

I point this out not to be a jerk, but because that mentality is a problem for developing your performances.

"There's always that one guy" equates to, "There's no benefit to improving because someone will still say these things."

And that's an insidious thought. That's the thinking that results in mediocre magic.

Antonio has had a bit to say on this but here is my two cents.

First off I want to point out that there isn't one in every group, it is not 'consistently" happening, you are jumping to some conclusions probably due to me not being as clear as I could have been. My "always" comment wasn't referring to each performance but in the general population. I can see how that may not be clear so I don't think your comment was "jerky". It looks like some people took the comment how I intended, and others took it the other way. That is my fault for not being concise. That being said there exists persons regardless of how you preform who sometimes without intention will disrupt; hecklers or super skeptics. They exist and in no way does this logically lead to ""There's no benefit to improving because someone will still say these things." because you are not preforming for those people.

You are preforming for the larger audience which are not defined by that small group of occasionally occurring people. You occasionally have to deal with disruptive people and I agree there are ways to minimize their disruptions from occurring by how you set up your routines. That is minimize, not 100 percent prevent.

Kudos to you for "never getting those comments". Perhaps you mean you get less of those comments now than before. I mean professional magicians talk about this issue often, especially ones who preform from audiences in impromptu or street/busking performances. This type of environment is similar to the magic done by the OP and will have a higher chance of those people being in the crowd than some other venues where a persons goal is to go to that venue to see magic.

 

[RealityOne]

I always look to my own performance first, when things don't go as I'd like them to.

I think this line is the most important in @ChristopherT's post. It is really an invitation. An invitation to consider how you can perform better. Every time I perform magic, I go over my performance in detail - what went right, what went wrong and most importantly, what I can learn from it. I never assume that there is something that I cannot change -- including audience reactions. My sense is that if you have someone guessing a method (whether out loud or even to themselves), then you've lost some of what makes magic beautiful.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I mean professional magicians talk about this issue often,

"Professional" means they make their living doing magic performances. It doesn't actually give a very good indication of the quality of their performances, and it certainly doesn't mean that they are conscious of the things they are doing that cause problems in their show.

And to be clear, I don't think I'm perfect. I see defects in my shows constantly. That is how I am able to point them out for others - usually it's something I've noticed I do, then I changed it, and it fixed part of my show.

My comments are not an attack or accusation. They are an expression of the things that have worked for me, or that I have seen others put to successful use.

If someone's talking about methods, the first place to look, in my opinion, is the the performance itself. Is there anything that's pulling them out of the engagement and giving them the impression that they should be trying to figure out the method?

Yes, it's possible they are just one of those people. Like I said, I've had a couple over the past ten years. But they are very few, and very far between - so before dismissing it as, "Oh, well, some people just refuse to get into it", take a magnifying glass to your own performance and make sure that there's nothing you're doing that accidentally encourages that behavior.

A professional will often hesitate to change anything about their performance once it is at a point that it's getting decent responses. They are concerned with making money, and getting to the next gig. And many of them accept people giving them a hard time as part and parcel for magic performances, probably because so many people have said that it will happen so frequently.