theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards
YouTube Magicians
- Thread starter Matthew F.(7)
- Start date
Pretty much, yeah. It's come to be expected from the subscribers, and it seems that the vast majority of them cave and start exposing things eventually.
Exposing - revealing effects that aren't yours
Teaching - your own effects
There are a bunch of exceptions and such to those^, but that's my 10 word opinion
Teaching - your own effects
There are a bunch of exceptions and such to those^, but that's my 10 word opinion
So if someone teaches a double lift or an ACR, it's exposing? It's exposing if I teach a simple sandwich effect?
I would define the terms as follows:
Exposing - Revealing a Paid (or free) effect/flourish/sleight that you did not create or have permission to teach that is not in the public domain.
Teaching - Showing viewers how to perform effects whose methods are in the public domain, your own creations, and effects you have permission to teach. All videos covering basic techniques would also fall into this category if done right.
However, I don't categorize videos that fall into the teaching category if the effect is not taught properly. Improperly taught magic that places the magician above the audience (in that the magician is superior to the audience) or that doesn't explain how to perform without making the effect blatantly obvious in my eyes isn't teaching, it's eroding the reputation of magic as new spectators become exposed to magic in a way that makes them view magicians with disgust.
In the end though, so-called magicians revealing magic on YouTube is inevitable. It's up to those with a true appreciation and respect for the art to get on the platform and teach the principles right (e.g. magicians like Chris Ramsey).
Exposing - Revealing a Paid (or free) effect/flourish/sleight that you did not create or have permission to teach that is not in the public domain.
Teaching - Showing viewers how to perform effects whose methods are in the public domain, your own creations, and effects you have permission to teach. All videos covering basic techniques would also fall into this category if done right.
However, I don't categorize videos that fall into the teaching category if the effect is not taught properly. Improperly taught magic that places the magician above the audience (in that the magician is superior to the audience) or that doesn't explain how to perform without making the effect blatantly obvious in my eyes isn't teaching, it's eroding the reputation of magic as new spectators become exposed to magic in a way that makes them view magicians with disgust.
In the end though, so-called magicians revealing magic on YouTube is inevitable. It's up to those with a true appreciation and respect for the art to get on the platform and teach the principles right (e.g. magicians like Chris Ramsey).
While I like your definition a lot more, there are a ton of exceptions. For example, is it exposing if someone with the right intent and method puts up a video on a Finding the Aces routine published in a book 70 years ago? That book is not a public domain, you still have to buy it to learn it, etc. Furthermore, doesn't that make all custom effects that used these moves exposing?
I see what you're saying, but Exposing is almost a weird metaphysical thing. It's hard to explain, but it's doing the opposite of someone with good intent + limits + rules + philosophy + technique.
Whew... i am safe! haha i look at my channel as an educational one... not just giving away the secrets for the sake of giving them away..... My channel is geared towards beginners who want to become better performers. I guess if you have good intentions and permission to use the materials you are posting, it isn't that bad right?
It seems to me that most (barely) of them are not trying for exposure, but the performances are so poor that exposure is the result. It seems that they don't realize that they can keep recording until they get a clean version, or just not post it when they figure out they can't. Do they even watch them before they upload them? It would seem that they don't.
Exposing the method of a trick is synonymous with teaching it. It's the same thing just with the facade that what you're doing is educational. Perhaps you do have good intentions and want to educate, but whether it's for money/views or teaching those who want to learn, the videos look the same.
So only 100% Original effects are not exposing? If so, reading or publishing a magic book, mentoring someone, buying an effect, giving a lecture, and flat out performing magic is exposing. Hell, these forums are exposure if that's what your going with.
I meant in the context of a video. Ramsays "educational" videos on a method to a trick is the same as DisturbReality to me. People can argue all they want about who does better crediting, teaches it better whatever, respect for the art...blah blah. The videos are identical to me.
If you complain or dont like one, you don't like the other as well.
Chris makes a lot of good points, that make a lot of sense. You may not agree 100%, but I watched it and was like damn...lol
No - what you are saying is that all YouTube magic videos are the same, and thus stating YouTube in itself is not a good way to teach magic. I got news for you buddy: It's 2017. If YouTube did not exist, you would be saying the same thing about books right now. Either say the same stuff about books, DVDs, mentoring, etc, or don't say anything.
Jean Hugard didn't credit anyone in The Royal Road. Is his stuff exposure? Erdnase did a ton of stuff wrong. Is his book exposure? David Williams TnR Transpo isn't 100% original. Is that stuff exposure?
I stopped reading when you said:
If you're going to tell me what I am saying, then you might as well be talking to yourself.
If you're going to tell me what I am saying, then you might as well be talking to yourself.
What comes to my mind with what you've said then is that teaching magic to new magicians online is exposure regardless of where it's done. So, if exposure is a negative thing as it would seem your view implies, are we not supposed to pass magic on online by teaching it because it would be exposure? My side of all of this is simple. Without teaching magic, the art form cannot grow and cannot survive.
Another thing is that a fair number of today's youngest learning magicians start on the only place they know (and can sometimes afford): the internet. It's also because of the internet that the art form has spread. That said, in today's world, we'd be foolish to allow poor teachings of effects to produce magicians that perform poorly by doing nothing to help the beginners. We can either work as a community to get new magicians on the right path or we can allow magic to become tarnished by beginners that go down the wrong path due to poor teaching.
In closing though, I would like to note that few tutorials online emphasize the presentation and performance side of magic. As a result the magicians learning solely from tutorials on YouTube focus more on the sleights, and thereby perform poorly. So the question I have now is, are we going to sit by and refuse to teach tricks on YouTube because it's "exposing the trick" and allow those with the wrong motives to do the teaching, thus guiding new magicians down a path that tarnishes the reputation of magic? Or, are we going to adapt to changing times and work to ensure magic grows as an art form?
Yes. Doesn't matter the medium or platform. Books, videos, youtube, or whatever by definition you can't teach a trick without exposing it.
It is not a negative thing to me. I don't sell tricks, nor do I perform mainstream effects in my routines. Exposure doesn't affect me, so I am indifferent to the topic of exposure being good or bad.
I don't care either way. I only had one point. Magic tutorials that people view as exposure, and magic tutorials that people view as educational are the same thing to me. There is no difference. All the problems that people blame on exposure (they're revealing the method, they're not crediting properly, they're teaching a trick you would normally have to pay for, its hurting the creators!) don't go away just because some "better" magician wants to teach it the "correct way". Sure they credit. Maybe they teach it better too, but it's all exposure in the end. I just want to call out the hypocrisy: you can't complain about exposure and also praise it...