YouTube Magicians

Steven the Wizard

Steven the Wizard

Dec 31, 2015
236
193
ChrisJGJ said:
Yes. Doesn't matter the medium or platform. Books, videos, youtube, or whatever by definition you can't teach a trick without exposing it.


It is not a negative thing to me. I don't sell tricks, nor do I perform mainstream effects in my routines. Exposure doesn't affect me, so I am indifferent to the topic of exposure being good or bad.


I don't care either way. I only had one point. Magic tutorials that people view as exposure, and magic tutorials that people view as educational are the same thing to me. There is no difference. All the problems that people blame on exposure (they're revealing the method, they're not crediting properly, they're teaching a trick you would normally have to pay for, its hurting the creators!) don't go away just because some "better" magician wants to teach it the "correct way". Sure they credit. Maybe they teach it better too, but it's all exposure in the end. I just want to call out the hypocrisy: you can't complain about exposure and also praise it...
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Thanks for clarifying. For me, "exposure" has both an ethical and an unethical side to it. Those in support praise those who follow what the majority perceive as ethical exposure (teaching stuff in the public domain and stuff one creates) while many of us complain about what we see as unethical (revealing stuff not in the public domain that one doesn't own). But, to each their own. Exposure is as magic is: defined by one's perception of it.
 
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obrienmagic

obrienmagic

Elite Member
Nov 4, 2014
1,469
1,422
Orange County, Ca
www.obrienmagic.com
I can see the argument on both sides:

1. On one hand if you are teaching magic at all you are exposing the secrets. Some people believe that magic should be held to a higher standard and that if one wanted to learn they would either have to come up with methods on their own, or become an apprentice.

2. Exposure vs. education. The other side is that exposure and education are not the same and that exposing magic just for likes or views (especially if it is not your product to expose) is frowned upon where as profiles that use tutorials as a means to educate and further the art without stepping on anyones toes may not be seen as a bad thing.

both valid arguments in their own ways.
 
Maaz Hasan

Maaz Hasan

Jan 26, 2017
2,173
1,338
23
Virginia
Can I ask something?
Is exposure really as bad a thing as we make it to be?
I mean, we as magicians (especially here on these forums) discuss it as if it is some horrible, devil-status, thing to magic. But Does it really effect us as magicians? From my experience a laymen could care less as to how a trick is done, and generally forget it in half an hour. I also think we as performers all customize most of our tricks (as discussed in the Eliminating Exposure post by @ChristopherT ) and do not run across any spectator who tries to reveal our tricks (hecklers are another story). I personally have no personal negative experience with laymen & exposure whilst performing. Unless you perform straight up effects from YouTube, you shouldn't have too much of an issue.
 
W

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,879
2,945
While I've made my thoughts on exposure pretty clear in the thread mentioned by Maaz, I have just now had a thought. I know this might offend some, but here it is:

The "good" magicians who put a lot of teaching and tutorials on their page are as bad, or worse, than those who expose random tricks.

Here's why: When some random nobody starts exposing things, it's just some kid/dude/whatever on YouTube. It's usually painfully obvious that they never perform, and their videos are crap. It feels like something one shouldn't be doing. However, when there's a polished video by a popular magician with a lot of subs and views, they are telling the community, "This is what we do. We expose stuff. We teach it for free so you'll watch the videos and we can get paid."

By pandering to the masses guys like Ramsay are legitimizing the idea that methods are to be given away. So when someone comes along and wants to learn magic, they go to YouTube (obviously), and they see this guy who's respected and producing good videos giving away methods. That's the model they are introduced to immediately. How are they supposed to know the difference between "good" exposure and "bad" exposure?

And taking a quick look at Ramsay's YT channel is very telling. Just looking at 3 lines of videos, there's one where he shows up at a fan's house in person. 39,000+ views. There's one he says he poured his heart and soul into, performing in Brooklyn, 80,000+ views. A tutorial on a which hand trick, 112,000+ views. A tutorial for some marker tricks, 130,000+ views. It's clear what gets the views, and thus the money.

It's hard to be an artist for a living. Clearly the easiest way to rack up views on YT is to expose stuff, so that's the easy way out and clearly that's the path that many people are taking.
 
Maaz Hasan

Maaz Hasan

Jan 26, 2017
2,173
1,338
23
Virginia
ChristopherT said:
While I've made my thoughts on exposure pretty clear in the thread mentioned by Maaz, I have just now had a thought. I know this might offend some, but here it is:

The "good" magicians who put a lot of teaching and tutorials on their page are as bad, or worse, than those who expose random tricks.

Here's why: When some random nobody starts exposing things, it's just some kid/dude/whatever on YouTube. It's usually painfully obvious that they never perform, and their videos are crap. It feels like something one shouldn't be doing. However, when there's a polished video by a popular magician with a lot of subs and views, they are telling the community, "This is what we do. We expose stuff. We teach it for free so you'll watch the videos and we can get paid."

By pandering to the masses guys like Ramsay are legitimizing the idea that methods are to be given away. So when someone comes along and wants to learn magic, they go to YouTube (obviously), and they see this guy who's respected and producing good videos giving away methods. That's the model they are introduced to immediately. How are they supposed to know the difference between "good" exposure and "bad" exposure?

And taking a quick look at Ramsay's YT channel is very telling. Just looking at 3 lines of videos, there's one where he shows up at a fan's house in person. 39,000+ views. There's one he says he poured his heart and soul into, performing in Brooklyn, 80,000+ views. A tutorial on a which hand trick, 112,000+ views. A tutorial for some marker tricks, 130,000+ views. It's clear what gets the views, and thus the money.

It's hard to be an artist for a living. Clearly the easiest way to rack up views on YT is to expose stuff, so that's the easy way out and clearly that's the path that many people are taking.
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I personally agree with Ramsay's stance, but do not like how he goes about it. I mean, he is essentially lowering himself to a level of the people he is trying to stop. I was referencing a couple other channels mainly. I don't like the fact that Ramsay teaches full tricks instead of the methods behind it.

I would much rather watch a channel that explains a method or sleight, runs down how to actually use, practice, and perform it. If they follow this and then gives you a trick that goes along with the method, great. If not, no problem. However, I will say that Chris has done a lot to try and steer the boat away from the other "exposers" and give a much better understanding of magic. I just don't think it matters to the extent that he put it at. I mean, he treats exposing as the plague, when in reality the exposers have very few views. I think he went over the top with trying to fix a problem that wasn't really there. I also hate how he acts like he's the only one doing this, when you have guys who have been around for much much longer accomplishing the same thing without flat out saying it. Furthermore, these guys have huge followings, much bigger than Chris's. I mean, we all know Chris wouldn't have nearly as big of a fan base if he didn't post that rant about exposing magic.

It is also important to note that these other channels have companies and projects outside of YouTube which is where there money comes from, and which keep away exposer limited.
 
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