Charlier Origins

Sep 2, 2007
1,186
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London
I think they were both moves that kind of floated around from magician to magician by word of mouth in the 1800s.

Charlier was working in the late 1800s, so I would imagine that the first publication of his pass would have been in Professor Hoffman's More Magic in 1889. There may be an earlier reference somewhere though.

As regards the thumb cut, as far as I know, it wasn't given that name until Jerry Cestkowski published his book, but the concept of clipping a packet under the thumb was a part of several cuts. The earliest reference I know to this idea in print is in Hugard's Card Manipulations Number 3, where he describes four one-hand cuts using this principle.
 
Jun 10, 2008
921
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Newcastle upon Tyne
It's worth noting, that the Charlier cut was originally used as a pass, usually executed with a turn of the body to hide the cutting action. In Vernon's revelations there is mention of a turn towards a wall being used to cover the action, with the magician knocking on said wall as motivation.

CL
 
Charles Bertram, the great English conjurer, used Charlier's move alot and could execute it 80 times-minute ( as mentioned in Expert Card Technique, I recall De'vo saying in a forum he could do it 120/min) ). He learned it from Charlier himself, and published his slightly modified handling in The Modern Conjurer. He also used it as a color change (angly, but neat ), see Expert Card Technique. I did the change for a friend of mine on webcam long time ago, I hope he come here and say what did he think of it. Marlo has alot of work on making the move invisible, as well as Fred Braue and I think Buckley.

Hope this helps,
 
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Sep 2, 2007
1,186
16
42
London
Ross Bertram, the great English conjurer, used Charlier's move alot and could excute it 80 times-minute ( as mentioned in Expert Card Technique, I recall De'vo saying in a forum he could do it 120/min) ). He learned it from Charlier himself, and published his slightly modified handling in The Modern Conjurer. He also used it as a color change (angly, but neat ), see Expert Card Technique. I did the change for a friend of mine on webcam long time ago, I hope he come here and say what did he think of it. Marlo has alot of work on making the move invisible, as well as Fred Braue and I think Buckley.

Hope this helps,

Sorry to correct you, but I think you mean Charles Bertram, rather than Ross.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,186
16
42
London
Remember that De'vo created it in 1600's, he taught the charlier cut to Houdini also :p

Well, actually, on a similar note, I've seen the "Double Charlier" and "Running Charlier" (taught on XB), credited to De'vo, whereas the technique was published in Hugard's Card Manipulations series under the heading "Variation of the Charlier Pass".
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,595
0
Venezuela
Well, actually, on a similar note, I've seen the "Double Charlier" and "Running Charlier" (taught on XB), credited to De'vo, whereas the technique was published in Hugard's Card Manipulations series under the heading "Variation of the Charlier Pass".
haahh damn de'vo claims to have created everything xD
 
Jan 31, 2008
363
0
Location: Location
Well, actually, on a similar note, I've seen the "Double Charlier" and "Running Charlier" (taught on XB), credited to De'vo, whereas the technique was published in Hugard's Card Manipulations series under the heading "Variation of the Charlier Pass".

I think you must have misread the credits.

And Aris, The only things De'vo claims to have done before have been mentioned MANY times before in the old and present HL forums, so it's pretty bs when someone try to claim the ideas when they were mention ages ago, sure the methods are probably original, but even Tudor will agree with me that it's the ideas that count most. Without the ideas, no moves, without De'vo's son's fan sybil idea mentioned back in '02 no Impossible. Plain and simple.

As for the actual subject, yes, the Charlier cut was originally a one handed pass, hence the name "The Charlier Pass" and if you have crazy misdirection skills and whatnot you can use it as a rising card type of move as well.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,186
16
42
London
Just to clarify, I didn't say that De'vo claimed the Double Charlier and Running Charlier. I meant that others had erroneously credited these moves to him.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,595
0
Venezuela
I think you must have misread the credits.

And Aris, The only things De'vo claims to have done before have been mentioned MANY times before in the old and present HL forums, so it's pretty bs when someone try to claim the ideas when they were mention ages ago, sure the methods are probably original, but even Tudor will agree with me that it's the ideas that count most. Without the ideas, no moves, without De'vo's son's fan sybil idea mentioned back in '02 no Impossible. Plain and simple.

As for the actual subject, yes, the Charlier cut was originally a one handed pass, hence the name "The Charlier Pass" and if you have crazy misdirection skills and whatnot you can use it as a rising card type of move as well.
Ok, I wont argue that cus we know that is bs

This post is PROOF that I have created the madonna combined with FANS, this is proof, if someone does it have to credit me because I created it first..

really..
 
Jan 31, 2008
363
0
Location: Location
Ok, I wont argue that cus we know that is bs

This post is PROOF that I have created the madonna combined with FANS, this is proof, if someone does it have to credit me because I created it first..

really..

Ok then. I won't be stupid and try to use this idea for a move and say I invented it. Although if I do make a video I'll be sure to give you full credits for giving me the idea. It's still nice to know that at 10 De's son was more original than Andrei.
 
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