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Discussion in 'Cardistry & Flourishing Forum' started by d_dooms, Jan 15, 2009.
Does anyone knows where was the Charlier Cut and the "Thumb Cut" first published??
In the Erdnase Bible, he talks about the origin of the Charlier Pass.
I think they were both moves that kind of floated around from magician to magician by word of mouth in the 1800s.
Charlier was working in the late 1800s, so I would imagine that the first publication of his pass would have been in Professor Hoffman's More Magic in 1889. There may be an earlier reference somewhere though.
As regards the thumb cut, as far as I know, it wasn't given that name until Jerry Cestkowski published his book, but the concept of clipping a packet under the thumb was a part of several cuts. The earliest reference I know to this idea in print is in Hugard's Card Manipulations Number 3, where he describes four one-hand cuts using this principle.
It's worth noting, that the Charlier cut was originally used as a pass, usually executed with a turn of the body to hide the cutting action. In Vernon's revelations there is mention of a turn towards a wall being used to cover the action, with the magician knocking on said wall as motivation.
Charles Bertram, the great English conjurer, used Charlier's move alot and could execute it 80 times-minute ( as mentioned in Expert Card Technique, I recall De'vo saying in a forum he could do it 120/min) ). He learned it from Charlier himself, and published his slightly modified handling in The Modern Conjurer. He also used it as a color change (angly, but neat ), see Expert Card Technique. I did the change for a friend of mine on webcam long time ago, I hope he come here and say what did he think of it. Marlo has alot of work on making the move invisible, as well as Fred Braue and I think Buckley.
Hope this helps,
I enjoy using the move as a pass, it has a lot of potential for versatility which seems to go quite unexplored generally.
Sorry to correct you, but I think you mean Charles Bertram, rather than Ross.
THANKS for correcting me >_<, my bad, I always confuse between the two for some reason.
Remember that De'vo created it in 1600's, he taught the charlier cut to Houdini also
Well, actually, on a similar note, I've seen the "Double Charlier" and "Running Charlier" (taught on XB), credited to De'vo, whereas the technique was published in Hugard's Card Manipulations series under the heading "Variation of the Charlier Pass".
haahh damn de'vo claims to have created everything xD
I think you must have misread the credits.
And Aris, The only things De'vo claims to have done before have been mentioned MANY times before in the old and present HL forums, so it's pretty bs when someone try to claim the ideas when they were mention ages ago, sure the methods are probably original, but even Tudor will agree with me that it's the ideas that count most. Without the ideas, no moves, without De'vo's son's fan sybil idea mentioned back in '02 no Impossible. Plain and simple.
As for the actual subject, yes, the Charlier cut was originally a one handed pass, hence the name "The Charlier Pass" and if you have crazy misdirection skills and whatnot you can use it as a rising card type of move as well.
Just to clarify, I didn't say that De'vo claimed the Double Charlier and Running Charlier. I meant that others had erroneously credited these moves to him.
Ok, I wont argue that cus we know that is bs
This post is PROOF that I have created the madonna combined with FANS, this is proof, if someone does it have to credit me because I created it first..
Ok then. I won't be stupid and try to use this idea for a move and say I invented it. Although if I do make a video I'll be sure to give you full credits for giving me the idea. It's still nice to know that at 10 De's son was more original than Andrei.
For Fcuk sake can you two just stop this pathetic fighting, you both sound like little 4 year old kids. Hey have you ever thought that they both invented DIFFERENT technique to accomplish a similar flourish/concept. And as TeeDee said he did not mean that De'vo claimed that he invented it, other N00Bz thinking that he invented.