That's what he said...

[Dmagic]

I have noticed a certain dilemma with magic today. First off let me say that I love what the masters of our art have given us. Great effects, insights, and much more. However, I think that some people are relying too much on what others have said. I think people need to try to become the next Dai Vernon. What I mean is that they need to think of their own insights, rather than repeat what others have said. The masters have given us a lot, and we need to give the art something more than tricks.

Tell me what you think.
-Dmagic

 

[Steerpike]

There are five steps to mastering a skill.

1. Imitation
2. Distinction
3. Evaluation
4. Invention
5. Innovation

They have to proceed in that order, and it takes a lot of time and work. Impatient to make the journey, most people waste their time starting at innovation and working their way backward in frustration when it doesn't pan out. The fields are littered with the bones of those who arrogantly tried and failed.

So yes, there need to be innovators. But they don't come about everyday. We need to be patient and observant.

Now, a less profound answer would be that the main reason people are creating tricks and not a lot of theory is because... well, which one do you think makes more money on DVD?

 

[Randy]

I don't think we should want to be like the giants in magic. We should want to be something else entirely. And the reason people quote Vernon so much is because he was pretty much a well spring of knowledge when it came to magic.

 

[conjurer77]

I've been thinking about this recently. Who of us should carry the torch forward? Who is capable of performing or executing this skills of Erdnase, Marlo, Frank Garcia, Vernon, Michael Skinner, Tommy Wonder, (and you SHOULD know the rest)? I, personally, only wish that I could own up to the skills and caliber of these masters. If any of you care about the art of sleight-of-hand...please do it justice and carry this art forward with dignity and respect of our previous masters.

 

[Dmagic]

I don't think we should want to be like the giants in magic. We should want to be something else entirely. And the reason people quote Vernon so much is because he was pretty much a well spring of knowledge when it came to magic.

Yes. Very true. But my problem is I only hear people quote masters. I very rarely hear a new principal or Idea that applies to many different things.

 

[Dmagic]

There are five steps to mastering a skill.

1. Imitation
2. Distinction
3. Evaluation
4. Invention
5. Innovation

They have to proceed in that order, and it takes a lot of time and work. Impatient to make the journey, most people waste their time starting at innovation and working their way backward in frustration when it doesn't pan out. The fields are littered with the bones of those who arrogantly tried and failed.

So yes, there need to be innovators. But they don't come about everyday. We need to be patient and observant.

Now, a less profound answer would be that the main reason people are creating tricks and not a lot of theory is because... well, which one do you think makes more money on DVD?

Sad but true.

 

[KeenanG]

I have noticed a certain dilemma with magic today. First off let me say that I love what the masters of our art have given us. Great effects, insights, and much more. However, I think that some people are relying too much on what others have said. I think people need to try to become the next Dai Vernon. What I mean is that they need to think of their own insights, rather than repeat what others have said. The masters have given us a lot, and we need to give the art something more than tricks.

Tell me what you think.
-Dmagic

Isn't that somewhat contradicting ?

Hmm...

I believe that every magician needs to have someone to look up to. A hero. Not someone that they should copy, but someone that they can hope to have their performance be up to caliber with. Not a performance that looks like theirs, but how the audience reacts to their performance in the end.

I have watched many videos on Theory 11 here, and I have noticed that a majority of them are the effects from other magicians. There is no problem with this, but I see the problem to be that these people are not changing the effect whatsoever. The patter is the same, the whole effect is the same. Why not change it to make it your own? Why not write your own script? No effect is perfect, so it always open for change.

Use your creativity to make the "trick" you are buying into magic. When you start doing this, your magic will change for the best. I think this is a big problem that most don't realize. They believe that just doing the trick they just bought exactly the same is how it should be done. I'm not saying this is bad, but what you have to realize is that these effects were created to fit the creator. Just because it looks amazing, doesn't mean it fits your style. Now, that doesn't mean you can't change it to make it suit you.

Keenan

 

[Dmagic]

Yeah. I mean that I'm hearing the same theories over and over. I think people need to be more original.

 

[Randy]

Yeah. I mean that I'm hearing the same theories over and over. I think people need to be more original.

Well the point is that people use a lot of Vernon or so and so's theory's so much is because they WORK. If ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

 

[Michael Kras]

Anyone who uses a persona and presentation that does not belong to him will not succeed. It can be sensed by magicians and even laypeople from a mile away. The people being imitated perform the way they do because their persona reflects themselves... it's closely related to who they are. You are not Tom Mullica, you are YOU.... therefore, it's up to you to build a character... one that is entertaining, engaging, original, and most importantly YOU.

 

[MagicShadow9]

I have watched many videos on Theory 11 here, and I have noticed that a majority of them are the effects from other magicians. There is no problem with this, but I see the problem to be that these people are not changing the effect whatsoever. The patter is the same, the whole effect is the same. Why not change it to make it your own? Why not write your own script? No effect is perfect, so it always open for change.

Use your creativity to make the "trick" you are buying into magic. When you start doing this, your magic will change for the best. I think this is a big problem that most don't realize. They believe that just doing the trick they just bought exactly the same is how it should be done. I'm not saying this is bad, but what you have to realize is that these effects were created to fit the creator. Just because it looks amazing, doesn't mean it fits your style. Now, that doesn't mean you can't change it to make it suit you.

Keenan

I might get bashed for saying this but oh well....

Me, as a performer, i try to modify my tricks to fit my own style. Sometimes i cut out some parts, sometimes i add some parts, sometimes i change the patter around. But there are still a few tricks that i do exactly as i learned them. Why? Because i'm doing it for laymen.

Chances are, the people you perform these effects to have never seen or even heard of the creator. Therefore the won't know what the original trick was like, so they can't really accuse me of not being original. To them, everything I do is original. In fact, 95% of the people i perform to think that i came up with all the tricks that i do.

My point is, it's not necessarily a bad thing to copy a trick word for word when it comes to performing for laymen. Now of course, not all the tricks i've learned fit my style so i change them around so they do fit my style. But some of the effects fit my style perfectly so there's no need for me to change anything.

 

[Ineski]

Why does everyone want to do things differently than in the past when you don't even knows how things were done in the past?

How could you even do things differently if you don't know how things were done in the first place?

Study.

 

[Steerpike]

Oh great. Now people are missing the point in favor of preaching doing tricks differently. Let the circle-jerking begin...

 

[magic_slave]

I might get bashed for saying this but oh well....

Me, as a performer, i try to modify my tricks to fit my own style. Sometimes i cut out some parts, sometimes i add some parts, sometimes i change the patter around. But there are still a few tricks that i do exactly as i learned them. Why? Because i'm doing it for laymen.

Chances are, the people you perform these effects to have never seen or even heard of the creator. Therefore the won't know what the original trick was like, so they can't really accuse me of not being original. To them, everything I do is original. In fact, 95% of the people i perform to think that i came up with all the tricks that i do.

My point is, it's not necessarily a bad thing to copy a trick word for word when it comes to performing for laymen. Now of course, not all the tricks i've learned fit my style so i change them around so they do fit my style. But some of the effects fit my style perfectly so there's no need for me to change anything.

i agree. the spectators... they feel the power... they do tell the difference of which magician is better although doing the same trick.
i've experince this before.... i perform the same magic as other do... but the difference is i have my own style... spectators are different nowadays.... don't feel sad of doing a trick thats invented by others... but own the trick your own way!

 

[Cedric Taylor]

I totally get what you are trying to say, however this stuff needs to be repeated until people get it.