It happened right under your nose...

[TylerRouss]

If you guys have seen any of my posts, I like to rant. This is an idea that occurred to me during one of my rants, and I would love to know what you guys think about it. This came to me while looking at a thread asking for Theory11 to provide more comprehensive feedback to declined videos for The Wire and the media section.

Theory11 was designed with one goal in mind, to advance the art of magic. As wonderful as it is to be coming up with new effects and material to learn from, Nothing comes close to advancing the art of magic as much as educating the novices of our community. This can save them from hundreds of pitfalls and traps on the path to becoming a talented artist, as well as save the rest of the magic community from dealing with exposure, and as well as upholding a good reputation in the eyes of the public. The game has changed, the face of magic is no longer the big names, the famous magicians. No, the internet and VHS facilitated a massive boost in the population of intermediate and novice magicians. They (we) are so numerous, that the general public absolutely sees more of them (us), than they do of any big names. I know many people who have never heard of David Blaine, Penn and Teller, David Copperfield, or Criss Angel. Maybe not the best, but certainly the biggest names in magic. Yet I hardly know a single person who has not seen or heard of close up shows. (before meeting me, lol.) "Street magic" has become the face of magic, and if we hope to advance it as an art, we have to nurture all the little facets (like myself, and so many others here) that compromise that image. New material, while cool, is by no means accomplishing that. The advancement of magic lies in the perfection of all its little parts. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

 

[WyattSB]

I think it depends entirely how the novices are educated. The Wire encourages creativity, but being creative in a good way is not encouraged. What is encouraged is to create magic that needs to be sold, the magic is not being created for the right reason. You'll find probably the best Wire releases are thing that people have been using for a while, and decided to share, as opposed to sitting around at home trying to think of something that can go on the Wire.
I think the best thing to teach new magicians is a blend of technique and effect, as opposed to just technique. When you tell someone that the double lift is the best way to switch a card, it becomes much more difficult for new & effective card switches to be made. Encouragement needs to be made for people to come up with new effects, or utilities, and then the technique for it will come. I think this is the best way to become your own magician, and to not be limited to other people moves and ideas.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I think we need to take the focus off of methods, actually. Performance is what is lacking in most magic that I see. It's all sportscasting patter and pointless tricks that just showcase what the so called performer can do, rather than focusing on creating a magical moment for the spectator. I don't think that street magic is the 'face' of magic at all. I live in a city that is full of magicians (Hocus Pocus' warehouse is located here) and most people here have never seen a 'street magician'. Most of the people here have strongly associated 'magic' with 'kid's show' because most of the magicians here do the majority of their business at birthday parties for youngsters.

New students need to be shown where to find a solid foundation. They need to be critiqued honestly instead of just patting them on the back and saying, "Good job!" People need to be told when their tricks suck, and why. And we, as a society, need to stop just trying to come up with something new and impossible, and start working on making things that are magical.

 

[TylerRouss]

Again, I was in mid rant when this was written, so I apologize if my point was a little convoluted. However this "New students need to be shown where to find a solid foundation. They need to be critiqued honestly instead of just patting them on the back and saying, "Good job!" People need to be told when their tricks suck, and why. And we, as a society, need to stop just trying to come up with something new and impossible, and start working on making things that are magical." is pretty darn close to what I was trying to get at. Thanks for your succinct arguments.

Christopher, as to my specifics on "street magic" perhaps this is more limited to my city, Houston is enormous and has a fairly large number of young magicians. However, insofar as what I have seen and heard personally, street magic really is becoming more commonly known. Not as a David Blaine TV special, but as an "oh I saw a kid do that once!" I have personally had this comment followed up with "He told me you did it like this.." on two separate occasions. That scares me, and was a major factor in my forming of this opinion.

Wyatt, I see your point. I had thought in a very similar manner for a very long time. Now however, I disagree. I agree with your point "I think the best thing to teach new magicians is a blend of technique and effect, as opposed to just technique," so long as by "effect" you mean presentation. Later though, you talk about not teaching novices current methods, and instead allowing them to discover their own. Currently, the general consensus is that you teach the method, a few misdirective suggestions, and leave the patter and presentation to the performer. Let them create and innovate on their own. This method has proven to be effective, efficient. Only however, with the magicians who already understand a good bit about patter and presentation. Novices, as is widely known, tend to take the stock patter, what is meant to be only a medium for describing an effect, and use that, or use their own patter of "watch me do this." I disagree with a lot of what you said, but I think your very right when you said that "effect" needs to more inclusive in how we teach the novice.

 

[WyattSB]

Wyatt, I see your point. I had thought in a very similar manner for a very long time. Now however, I disagree. I agree with your point "I think the best thing to teach new magicians is a blend of technique and effect, as opposed to just technique," so long as by "effect" you mean presentation. Later though, you talk about not teaching novices current methods, and instead allowing them to discover their own. Currently, the general consensus is that you teach the method, a few misdirective suggestions, and leave the patter and presentation to the performer. Let them create and innovate on their own. This method has proven to be effective, efficient. Only however, with the magicians who already understand a good bit about patter and presentation. Novices, as is widely known, tend to take the stock patter, what is meant to be only a medium for describing an effect, and use that, or use their own patter of "watch me do this." I disagree with a lot of what you said, but I think your very right when you said that "effect" needs to more inclusive in how we teach the novice.

By effect, I meant the impossible action, what the spectator sees, including the 'magic' that is created by their perception, so the trick and performance. But this still applies greatly to what I said about creativity, encouraging creativity in technique will help develop your style just as much as developing your presentation.
Essentially I what I'm trying to say is to not trap new magicians into the mindset of other magicians.

 

[JButterfield]

INew students need to be shown where to find a solid foundation. They need to be critiqued honestly instead of just patting them on the back and saying, "Good job!" People need to be told when their tricks suck, and why. And we, as a society, need to stop just trying to come up with something new and impossible, and start working on making things that are magical.

I think that one of the biggest problems in magic (if not THE biggest problem) is encouraging creativity before people are ready for it.

I think like other arts, we should encourage imitation as a means to learn rather than encourage creativity before people have a solid foundation. Imagine if we told aspiring guitar players to make up their own songs, chords and harmonies. What if we told dancers to make up their own moves, rather than learn how to do a pirouette or arabesque properly, or have beginning actors not learn basic stagecraft?

If you have never performed a solid routine polished by years of repetition by a real worker, how will you know what one feels like? In my opinion, most of the bad magic I see is because of people trying to be creative before they are ready for it. Beginners should do routines as written. Intermediates should change things very little, and be very judicious in the changes they make.

I am not coming down against creativity per se; only when it is applied prematurely. Too many want to put the cart before the horse and start creating when their time would be best spent learning. As a community, I think we would be better served by encouraging beginners and intermediates to focus on the material as written, to learn what really makes a strong, tried and true routine tick.

Again, I am not knocking creativity, originality, or anything like that. I'm only saying we're putting too high a value on that to begin with, and we should put more value on performing existing routines as a way to learn.

 

[WyattSB]

I think like other arts, we should encourage imitation as a means to learn rather than encourage creativity before people have a solid foundation. Imagine if we told aspiring guitar players to make up their own songs, chords and harmonies. What if we told dancers to make up their own moves, rather than learn how to do a pirouette or arabesque properly, or have beginning actors not learn basic stagecraft?

I don't think that applies to magic. The goal is to do the impossible, most of the time, the exact same thing is achieved by creating magic, or by learning it. Sometimes you do it better than others, it is not really dependent on whether you created the magic or not, but i think creating magic goes well with discovering your character and performance style. Learning how to be a magician is just as important as learning how to do magic, all depending on your goals.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I don't think that applies to magic. The goal is to do the impossible, most of the time, the exact same thing is achieved by creating magic, or by learning it. Sometimes you do it better than others, it is not really dependent on whether you created the magic or not, but i think creating magic goes well with discovering your character and performance style. Learning how to be a magician is just as important as learning how to do magic, all depending on your goals.

Your goal may be only to do the impossible, but mine is to create magical experiences. There's a difference.

The problem is that people who don't already have a foundation of magic techniques just end up re-inventing the wheel instead of progressing it. They don't know what's already been done, so they start back where everyone else started. Everyone ends up in basically the same place. Whereas if they learned first they'd start where the last guys stopped and be that much farther along without having to figure everything out along the way. The phrase, "Standing on the shoulders of giants" comes to mind.

Also, how can one use a trick to build a character unless they've understood their character well enough to know which tricks and effects will suit it? This goes back to my thought that magicians need more focus on learning how to perform instead of just trying to make up tricks that will impress other magicians. We get so hung up on making everything totally perfect that we forget to make it magical. Or even interesting in most cases.

Though I suppose it does indeed depend on your goals. If your goal is just to create magic tricks, rather than say, be a good performer of magic, then yes, begin creating as soon as possible. You'll throw away most of what you create due to it being crap or having been done before, but you will also start building the skills of thinking creatively and refining those thoughts into something usable. Hopefully. It's also possible you'll just churn out one crap trick after another, but I was trying to stay positive.

 

[RealityOne]

I truly agree with Johnny (JButterield), Christopher and Tyler. The focus in magic these days is the method and the focus of people's creativity is comming up with a "new" method (regardless of whether that method has been invented before, it is new to that magician). That leads to methods being passed off as magic. A color change isn't magic, just like a lug wrench isn't an automobile.

Where is the creativity in scripting? Where is the creativity in character? Where is the creativity in constructing routines? look out magicians look to effects that are strong enough to be presented by merely saying what you are doing to get a reaction.

I'm amused at how I get ten e-mails a week from my favorite magic shops, telling me that the greatest trick ever invented (well, at least until another trick comes out next week) is now being released. I wonder at the choice of words, because too often the description has to do with the sense of sight - "amazingly visual"; "won't believe your eyes"; "I've never seen anything like this." I wonder if the effect is like watching television without the sound. Magic happens in the spectator's mind and not their eyes. Tricks that are ONLY visual are not magic.

I'm beginning to think that there is something of a revolution going on. No, it's not widespread, but more underground. Maybe more of a secret society or a brotherhood. Christopher is there. I think JButterfield is there too. Tyler is just realizing the potential. We find our methods in books - for those are truly where secrets are buried. We know that by having a depth of knowledge, we dont have to reinvent the wheel. Our toolboxes are full with what we need to build strong magic. We then make the effects we choose our own through developing a presentation and script that is consistent with our character.

 

[Randy]

This whole "Under their nose" bit reminds me of something I saw Doc Eason talk about on a DVD I saw recently. He mentioned that the best form of misdirection is simply ask the person a question and use their name has often as you can during your performances. He mentioned that his sleight of hand isn't super smooth or anything, but that we should be focused less on worrying about having godly perfect sleights and focus more on making the magic an entire body experience. The magic is what makes YOU entertaining. Not the cards/coins/sponge balls. I think he also mentioned how guys like Bob Sheets do sleights that are right out in the open, yet nobody catches them do anything.

 

[TylerRouss]

I don't think that applies to magic. The goal is to do the impossible, most of the time, the exact same thing is achieved by creating magic, or by learning it. Sometimes you do it better than others, it is not really dependent on whether you created the magic or not, but i think creating magic goes well with discovering your character and performance style. Learning how to be a magician is just as important as learning how to do magic, all depending on your goals.

Mr. Butterfield brought up an excellent point by comparing magic to other performing arts, and how they are learned. You disagreed with him, and I think your partially correct, but for a different reason. I believe that the novices of magic are currently not the same as they are in other arts. There are so many new and aspiring magicians who do not get out and perform, or only do it with a select group of people. Those people they perform with quickly begin to learn basic concepts, as the novice makes many mistakes. That means that soon enough, this novice will only be performing for/comparing himself to, people that already have a foundation or at least understanding of magic. He is only ever seeing himself and his performances in the light of other magicians, or through the review of those peers who he regularly perform for. Therefore, in order to get better reactions, he has to innovate new methods. This is where the problems really begin. Instead of getting better reactions by improving his presentation and showmanship, he is taught that to get better reactions you need new material. You see the discrepancy here? This is why learning magic now, is unlike learning other arts. We spend so much time trying to impress each other, we forget that we are really doing the show for the audience. So yes, it does not apply to magic. That is what we need to try to fix.

You also said that the exact same thing is learned through creating magic as by learning it, that is also correct. However, you also have to learn about a hundred other things (at least you should..) in order to create magic. That is a lot to learn it once. I think it is much preferable to learn it, where you only have a few things to focus on and worry about (at least a lot less). I think that you will see much more improvement that way, and you wont run as high of a risk of developing bad habits.

Creativity has its virtues, and is absolutely necessary to the advancement of individual magicians and the community of magic, but its place is not with the novice. Wherein you run a high risk of bad habits, useless moves, and poorly developed and tested presentation. As Mr. Butterfield said.

Tyler

 

[TylerRouss]

Also, how can one use a trick to build a character unless they've understood their character well enough to know which tricks and effects will suit it? This goes back to my thought that magicians need more focus on learning how to perform instead of just trying to make up tricks that will impress other magicians. We get so hung up on making everything totally perfect that we forget to make it magical. Or even interesting in most cases.

Christopher brings up an excellent point as well. There seems to be a disagreement here about whether creativity or imitation better allows us to advance as magicians, in presentation, showmanship, character... etc. Personally, I agree with Christopher. I think that imitation facilitates the advancement of our presentation, our showmanship, and who we are as a magician. Using someone else's tried and true routines allows you to worry a lot less about misdirection, sleight execution, and your props in general, and allows you to instead focus on who you are when you present, your character, your showmanship.

You also brought up "standing on the shoulders of giants." I'd like to point something else out about this, and about the idea of creative novices coming up with better methods. The fact is, the better methods are already out there. Not the best, there is always something better. Always a better way to do something. However, the methods that exist are here because they work. Speaking from a purely mathematical standpoint, not only would many novices re-invent the wheel, they would make it square. Chance combined with a trial and error approach means that most novices would take weeks to come up with methods that were far, far worse for accomplishing the same thing they could have learned in a few days, perhaps hours, from another magician.

 

[TylerRouss]

David, would you mind elaborating on your second and fourth paragraphs? I had a hard time understanding what you were referring too.
As to your point about wording, I could not agree more. Craig Browning's recent post about a "wish list" had me looking through Ellusionist and Theory11. It seems as though every effect has the same description, with little tidbits of variation thrown around here and there. Regardless of the effects themselves, the descriptions really do look exactly alike, and they focus on the most unimportant things. The things that should be true about any effect released.

Randy, I would just like to say that watching Bob Sheets perform is one of the best experiences I have had as a magician. He is hilarious. For the very same reason you just mentioned. He blatantly, right in your face, does the most visible, noticeable sleights you can think of, and even magicians are blown away. His misdirection is beautiful.

 

[WyattSB]

Your goal may be only to do the impossible, but mine is to create magical experiences. There's a difference.

The problem is that people who don't already have a foundation of magic techniques just end up re-inventing the wheel instead of progressing it. They don't know what's already been done, so they start back where everyone else started. Everyone ends up in basically the same place. Whereas if they learned first they'd start where the last guys stopped and be that much farther along without having to figure everything out along the way. The phrase, "Standing on the shoulders of giants" comes to mind.

Also, how can one use a trick to build a character unless they've understood their character well enough to know which tricks and effects will suit it? This goes back to my thought that magicians need more focus on learning how to perform instead of just trying to make up tricks that will impress other magicians. We get so hung up on making everything totally perfect that we forget to make it magical. Or even interesting in most cases.

Though I suppose it does indeed depend on your goals. If your goal is just to create magic tricks, rather than say, be a good performer of magic, then yes, begin creating as soon as possible. You'll throw away most of what you create due to it being crap or having been done before, but you will also start building the skills of thinking creatively and refining those thoughts into something usable. Hopefully. It's also possible you'll just churn out one crap trick after another, but I was trying to stay positive.

I'm not sure you understand, but we're saying the same thing, I agree with you.