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[jonraiker]

He DOES GIGS! Correct? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he is a WORKING magician. The guy has a website., with his phone number on it. If he was such a "underground" guy, would he put his friggin number on his site. Last time I checked, you don't have to release a crap load of material to be considered a well-known non-underground magician. Half of the most well-known magicians haven't released a thing! Even if he was "underground"(Which he wasn't) he's not anymore, so it isn't right to put that label on him.

Releasing two 1-on-1's on a niche magic website does not deprive one of underground status. Hours and hours at the table in the basement of Steve Forte's house earn it.

Underground is not just an aesthetic, and it's not defined as someone that lives in a cave in Afghanistan and only in communication with the outside world via tin cans and smoke signals. It means someone that is beneath the surface - not someone traditionally in the spotlight - not someone that seeks the spotlight.

Jason is a card mechanic. He practices moves and studies card handling out of respect for the art and in a constant push for making his moves even more imperceptible than they already are.

That said, arguing over semantics of an adjective is not something that is relevant nor advancing of our discussion. Looking forward to this release tonight - it's a huge one, and something that has never before been taught in such critical detail in video form.

 

[Flyspazz]

You do something like release 200 hard to find decks and someone always has to whine.

You announce an awesome Holiday Contest and the whining starts about the prizes.

So basically anything you do for your members someone’s going to complain. I'm glad the management here realizes just because there is a few as@es doesn’t make this place a donkey farm. Most of us appreciate the efforts and you trying to keep this place fun while moving forward. So thanks.

 

[chainzero]

He DOES GIGS! Correct? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he is a WORKING magician. The guy has a website., with his phone number on it. If he was such a "underground" guy, would he put his friggin number on his site. Last time I checked, you don't have to release a crap load of material to be considered a well-known non-underground magician. Half of the most well-known magicians haven't released a thing! Even if he was "underground"(Which he wasn't) he's not anymore, so it isn't right to put that label on him.

You sure are getting really worked up over semantics. Go do some shopping or something instead of being angry on a message board.

Honestly, people are going to have different definitions of "underground." You're pretty much starting an argument based on those differences so what exactly are you trying to accomplish?

 

[Creeper]

"Jason is a card mechanic."


Can we not just leave it at that. If we break it down to what it really is, then all he is is a card mechanic. If you understood where I'm coming from, you'd see that I'm not just arguing about an adjective. Its what that adjective represents.


I love how throughout this good debate, you still find a way to plug and hype your product. I'm all for a buisness doing well, but I'm trying to have a good discussion here, and your comeback is just a useless plug. You may have your own definition for underground, but I'll stick with the Dictionary's. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/underground

 

[DannyT]

He DOES GIGS! Correct? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he is a WORKING magician. The guy has a website., with his phone number on it. If he was such a "underground" guy, would he put his friggin number on his site. Last time I checked, you don't have to release a crap load of material to be considered a well-known non-underground magician. Half of the most well-known magicians haven't released a thing! Even if he was "underground"(Which he wasn't) he's not anymore, so it isn't right to put that label on him.

Relax man, don't get so worked up over a little word, . . . . . well big word. Who cares what he's labeled as. He could be labeled as Spawn of Satan, Devil's advocate, super duper top secret magician alive . . . . . I still wouldn't care.

I could picture you getting mad at seeing girls with pants on that have "sexy" written on their butt, when in fact they look disgusting.
Has anyone ever came up to them saying, "No . . . . . . . ., no . . . . . . . . . . . . ., your ugly, . . . . . . . . . . You Are False Advertising."
Of course not, but we just let it go anyway because it's not important enough to argue over. It doesn't matter and doesn't mean anything.

It's all about his skill level for me, I could care less if he's an underground magician or not.
It has nothing to do with me.

 

[Creeper]

I'm not "whining" about anything. I'm just trying to prove a point.

And I'm not angry, despite how I might sound. You don't have to be angry to be in an argument.

chainzero, I'm not trying to accomplish anything per say, I just want to hear some opinions.
Also, come up with your own opinion, instead of just siding with raiker(no disrespect to him)

 

[Flyspazz]

Can we not just leave it at that.

Maybe Jason is fine with the term.

Would that be ok with you? Is he allowed to label himself?

Your debate over this word is petty. Now go practice something from Erdnase and give your hands something fun to do.

 

[Creeper]

FYI, I'm practicing right now.

You can all go practice your secretive, never before seen moves. Just wanted to prove a point, but some of you guys are a little to dense to accept my opinion.

 

[visualartist]

Well that clears it up for me at least.
That seems the right definition of underground.
I try not to be biased as possible and reading baymes post makes sense.

As for creepers last post.

Ok,ill use an example.
Jak sankey is mainstream(commercial,etc) and jason england is underground(independent)
Jay sankey releases effects(and he has no problem reminding us whenever he can) all over the world and are,according to him,worldwide best-sellers.there is almost not a single person on this site that doesnt know his name.
Jason england on the other hand is a more subtle artist i would say.He is just as J. bayme decribed him "He has never released anything widely available; he has not given many lectures; he has not been visible ANYWHERE except for back rooms at conventions and in private study with his best friend and mentor, Steve Forte. If that's not underground, then it doesn't exist."
You say his name is widely known.I dont know if thats true but arent the names of Steve buscemi or david gordon green well known in the film industry? Steve buscemi has appeared in many mainstream films yet he is as independent(underground) as they come.
David gordon green is a great maverick filmmaker with his own idiosyncratic vision with works like George washington,all the real girls,undertow. Yet he also stepped onto the mainstream for a little bit to release Pineapple express.
Does that mean he loses his credibility as independent?The answer is no.
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[jonraiker]

Tonight's release is from one of this industry's greats. Out of respect for Jason - and as argument over a definition of the word "underground" is not relevant to advancing any of our knowledge or skillset - this thread is closed.