See...this is the sort of crap that pisses me off. Corey, you need to apologize for your post. Step up and handle this like a man. It was out of line and not needed. That's non-negotiable IMO.
Secondly, yes, we do need to respect those that have paved the road. Guys such as Dai Vernon, Harry Lorayne, Mark Wilson, Denny Haney, Johnny Thompson, and soooo many more that have taken this art to the next level. Without those guys, who knows where we'd be?
I think many people get the wrong idea about older performers not liking new kids getting started and stuff...that's not the mentality at all. From speaking with many "old" magicians, as you guys call them, it's the way they get started and the way they're lead into this art that irritates them. The $20 instant downloads, the "street magic" BS that seems so popular, the Ellusionist image (and yes, Theory11 seems to be just another Ellusionist IMO), etc.
Personally, I love hanging out with the big names in magic...the greats in magic. I've learn more watching Denny Haney doing a brief egg bag routine in 5 minutes than I've learn on most forums! Just watching them perform and seeing how they handle themselves is magic right there...and personally, I think it's just disgusting how the "new kids" in magic seem to think that they're doing something wrong. I'll be honest and say I know that not one single person on these forums could hold a candle to the guys I listed above...the greats in magic.
I've heard stories of Harry Lorayne entertaining a group of folks in a hotel lobby for 2 hours with just a SINGLE DECK OF CARDS. I've heard of Denny Haney destroying an audience with the classics of magic, such as the Multiplying Bottles, that so many people seem to put down these days. Hell, he even has a video on Youtube of it, and it has to be one of my favorite videos EVER! I've seen footage of Don Alan performing the chop cup routine to 1500 people at a sold out show to a STANDING OVATION!
I don't know why we're sitting here bashing them, when we should be picking their brains and trying to LEARN FROM THEM. What I would give to spend a day with one of those guys, asking question after question and trying to learn as much as I could. Why? Because they're literally, BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT! They've had shows that have been less than great, and then performed to sold out crowds! Most of them have performed in every situation imaginable, and a few that you can't even think of performing in. They know their stuff, and know far more than most want to give them credit for.
Without a lot of the greats in magic, there wouldn't be Daniel Gracia, Justin Miller, Chris Kenner, Wayne Houchin...the guys most of you drool over and would give both your legs to hang out with. Most of magic came from these guys...sleights to tricks, most of it's been done before. In fact, it's pretty damn hard to come up with something completely original this day in age, ESPECIALLY with cards. They've done so much to progress this art, that giving them anything less than 200% of your complete respect is just you being an *******.
Am I taking this to seriously? Perhaps, but I've seen first hand complete disrespect to a lot of older magicians that makes them not like the younger generation. Then I've learned so much from watching a VHS tape of those guys performing, and just completely amazed at how they're composing themselves, and the dedication and time spent on the PERFORMANCE aspect. After seeing footage like that, it's no wonder how they went on to make a name for themselves in this art.
And then people turn around and talk ****.....
But, as for the old timers, their presentation isn't for this day and age. As Chris Kenner said, "old timers use the same routine and jokes from 50 years ago, and still think it's funny now", and it's not funny now. It's not funny now because the future has changed.
The "old timers" would present tricks with stories as some sort of mystical thing. This day and age, we don't present tricks as mystical, but rather as something freaky and out of this world.
Let that be your opinion, and your alone. I for one would never present my magic as "freaky and out of this world." That seems to be something that has developed because of DB and CA....how is anyone to say it is more right or wrong than the way magic was presented 100 years ago? That is an argument that can't be made with any proof of the matter...at. all.
Denny Haney once performed sponge bunnies for me a few ears ago, and I was almost in tears it was that funny. And so was everyone else in the shop too. That's the way he's been performing it for years, and it's shows in a good way. To make that statement that CK made is perhaps speaking for a few, and cannot be made of all "old timers". Just like a lot of the "card punks" that seem to be around this day and age help make up the opinion of older magicians for ALL kids. That is not fair for either group. Then again, is seperating the "old timers" versus the "card punks" helping anyone? It sure isn't hurting the greats in this art, but sadly the same can't be said for the younger generation. I think a lot of the younger kids are missing out on lots of knowledge by eliminating the "old timers" from their collection of T11 and Ellusionist dvds....
So, look back on them for making the tricks we use today, but don't use their performance ideas or presentation. Create your own new modern style.
Peace!
Tyler
How can one say not to use their performance ideas or presentations?? I've been using Max Malini's presentation for the Malini Egg Bag and IT KILLS! The Don Alan chop cup routine is a classic in magic, and IT KILLS! These are all presentations from "old timers" and you know what...they were developed for REAL PEOPLE and to be performed in front of lay audiences in PERFORMING VENUES. Not the "new" stuff today that is more like hit and run magic, where the proper routining isn't anywhere close to where it should be. Today it seems, the "cool" thing to do is stalk someone on the "street" and show them 30 seconds of magic and call it a show.
Somehow, this has become more acceptable this day in age, but I still don't think that makes it completely ok.
Just my thoughts...not an attack at Tyler, Corey, or anyone else for that matter.
-Steve
