ok i was reading the same posts as everybody else then. ok, i dont feel like a total jerk anymore.
10% Trick, 90% Magic
- Thread starter oldavid1
- Start date
ok i was reading the same posts as everybody else then. ok, i dont feel like a total jerk anymore.
You really think the focus of my story was to tell of how I pranked my friend?
Regarding your second quote, I still stand by my point. Notice I said "With JUST tricks", not with Magic as a whole. With just tricks, the impact will not be as strong as a trick with much more presentation revolving around it, building it up, supporting it. And how is it that you are seeing me imply that magic is lower than mentalism presentation wise? Besides, that was not the main focus behind my story, it was more about how your presentation can make your simple "tricks" so much stronger, and bring out more potential than if they were presented as simple tricks to fool spectators.
@Sidekick - Yes you are correct in saying both mentalists and magicians present things they can do. But this thread was never meant to start a debate between mentalism vs. magic. Please, understand.
And yes, in mentalism, Mentalists usually present things about themselves, bringing their persona and character to the stage/streets as well as their tricks. Persona and character are truly essential aspects of mentalism; that's why I THINK magic and mentalism are different, because of their different focusses. I'm definitely not implying in any form that magic is better or worst than mentalism, and please remember my story, and not think of this debate (that was never meant to be) be the sole purpose of this thread.
You were never a jerk, but you did get me puzzled.
I am still yet to find someone who can discover the true focus behind my thread. Or am I just not meant to express myself this way(?)
I have been watching this at a distance and decided to weigh in on it.
Intellectually people know that magic is not real, no matter how well the suspend their belief for ultmately they come back to reality. Mentalism when performed well has the ability to have the audience accept your lie. The most modern example of this is Derren Brown and to this day people talk about his pseudo methods as if they are the real ones. But it goes futher than that, look at Geller he convinced a fairly large percentage of the world that he was genuine. Banachek even has university certification that he is the real deal. And to this day many many people still believe in psychics. But that is enough on that topic for now.
If we take a classic of magic and the performance of it from two of the biggest names, Blaine and Copperfield. The both have very different takes on the levetation plot. If you were to look at Copperfields it is a very beautiful illousion which has many systems in play to help cancel out certain methods that the audience may come up with. However at the end of it the audience claps and takes it as a beautiful trick, because if he could fly that would change everything. On the other hand Blaine did a hidden classic that nobody really used and atleast at the start made it real. Looking at the two methods back to back Blaines requires far less work and only lasted a few seconds. However if you watched both and the reactions that they achieved one is percieved as a very clever thing of beauty and the other was concieved as being borderline real.
This is why oldavid1 percieves mentalism to be stronge because the doubt you can create is that much stronger and inturn leads people to accepting what you are doing as real.
Intellectually people know that magic is not real, no matter how well the suspend their belief for ultmately they come back to reality. Mentalism when performed well has the ability to have the audience accept your lie. The most modern example of this is Derren Brown and to this day people talk about his pseudo methods as if they are the real ones. But it goes futher than that, look at Geller he convinced a fairly large percentage of the world that he was genuine. Banachek even has university certification that he is the real deal. And to this day many many people still believe in psychics. But that is enough on that topic for now.
If we take a classic of magic and the performance of it from two of the biggest names, Blaine and Copperfield. The both have very different takes on the levetation plot. If you were to look at Copperfields it is a very beautiful illousion which has many systems in play to help cancel out certain methods that the audience may come up with. However at the end of it the audience claps and takes it as a beautiful trick, because if he could fly that would change everything. On the other hand Blaine did a hidden classic that nobody really used and atleast at the start made it real. Looking at the two methods back to back Blaines requires far less work and only lasted a few seconds. However if you watched both and the reactions that they achieved one is percieved as a very clever thing of beauty and the other was concieved as being borderline real.
This is why oldavid1 percieves mentalism to be stronge because the doubt you can create is that much stronger and inturn leads people to accepting what you are doing as real.
Yes, that, in essence, is what I was trying to portray. The Doubt that you can induce into your audience will impact them in ways that simple tricks can never achieve.
I really want magicians here to understand this fact, and apply it into whatever tricks they do, from the very, very BASIC tricks (double-lift) to the more complex and sophisticated tricks (perhaps Clipshift?).
Try it, make a plausible presentation - whether it be scientific or "magical" - and really strive to make your audience DOUBT: About what they believe is reality, about their paradigms, and about the impossibilities in life - or rather, the Possibilities.
For isn't that what Magic is? Making the impossible, possible.
Make your Magic Real.
To be frank, I struggle to be taken seriously yet, since everyone I've performed for know already that I am a magician, not as a mentalist. They all think I'm doing mere "tricks". I consider my duty as the Mentalist to show them what is ParaNormal; blow their brains, then piece it back together again in ways they never thought possible.
Thanks D ICE R.
the goal of magic is to get beyond the intellect by baffling it and not giving it a possible explanation, and then taking the emotions on a roller-coaster ride.
Are you referring my quote "Try..make a plausible explanation"?
If you are, well, bad diction on my part. I think it's a difficult task for me to explain what I think regarding this, so I shall explain in the days to come.
But as a (bad?) example, let's take Derren Brown. He admits he is not psychic, and claims to be using some form of NLP, cold reading, etc. The explanations he offers ARE believable, yet at the same time...miraculous. Let's think for a moment; How then can we BELIEVE in MAGIC? You said "the goal of magic is to get beyond the intellect by baffling it", and I believe Derren has accomplished that, to "get beyond the intellect" and most definitely "baffling it". So is he doing Magic?
"And not giving it a possible explanation"...again, Derren "uses" NLP, possible explanation?
I really think I'm dragging myself deeper into these tiny debates...please, Web, anything regarding my initial story?
If you are, well, bad diction on my part. I think it's a difficult task for me to explain what I think regarding this, so I shall explain in the days to come.
But as a (bad?) example, let's take Derren Brown. He admits he is not psychic, and claims to be using some form of NLP, cold reading, etc. The explanations he offers ARE believable, yet at the same time...miraculous. Let's think for a moment; How then can we BELIEVE in MAGIC? You said "the goal of magic is to get beyond the intellect by baffling it", and I believe Derren has accomplished that, to "get beyond the intellect" and most definitely "baffling it". So is he doing Magic?
"And not giving it a possible explanation"...again, Derren "uses" NLP, possible explanation?
I really think I'm dragging myself deeper into these tiny debates...please, Web, anything regarding my initial story?
hollerrr peeps...
some interesting thoughts and ideas...i talk about the same kind of thing in my last two posts on my new blog thingy
http://alexpandrea.wordpress.com/
peace!
some interesting thoughts and ideas...i talk about the same kind of thing in my last two posts on my new blog thingy
http://alexpandrea.wordpress.com/
peace!
I personally think this thread's not stirring up that much argument. If you dislike arguments, why don't you just say something more constructive than stating the "obvious".