3 Card Monte Pack for THE WIRE

[Philipp S.(4)]

Hey Guys,

I've been fascinated my the three card monte plot for a while now. So my idea was to let the money card "travel" between 2 jokers and I first had this idea about 6 months ago. 1 month ago, I came up with a cool and simple moev to achieve this effect, as you can see in the trailer.
Recently, I tried to publish another 3 card monte effect but it got rejected. So I sat down and thought and I combined my effects to 3 routines. Each of them uses different phases and I came up with more than ten. I really would like to hear your thoughts on the trailer and the visual aspect. Please bother me that I didnt put in the whole routine, it would have been a 7 minute long video and it would give away - for magicians - how it works.
If my monte video won't be rejected, you will find full performances of all three routines.
I've been performing one of those routines every single day after I created it and it is just so much fun and interaction with the audience. I just love it. So below me is the trailer and let me hear your first thoughts on this trailer (please don't only write: I want to see the full performance... *blablabla* )

[video=youtube;OvVP5BtBuRo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvVP5BtBuRo&feature=youtu.be[/video]

I think I will post all 3 performances tomorrow, I need to upload them.
Cheers
Philipp
Let me know what you think!

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

Copyright and Credits

Hey There,

I realized that my routine uses the Fontaine move by Zach Mueller. Am I allowed to put a short explanation of his move in my video?
Cheers Philipp

 

[KonTW]

Hey There,

I realized that my routine uses the Fontaine move by Zach Mueller. Am I allowed to put a short explanation of his move in my video?
Cheers Philipp

Basically there is no copyright on magic tricks - but if you want to teach a move, created my someone else, you
should ask this person for permission to teach it.

And if you are explaining an unoriginal idea in your video, it probably won't get accepted on the Wire...

 

[TylerRouss]

What does this offer that the hundreds of other three card monte's out there don't?

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

Great Question, Simple Answer.
Have you ever seen a move where a card travels between two jokers?
If Yes, was it impromptu?
If the answer is still yes, there is the phase that uses Zach Muellers Move ( I already developed another move which accomplishes the same) with an unique new idea I haven't seen thus far.
If you figured out the whole trailer then there won't be mich new for new. But I didn't show every phase in the trailer so ...

 

[krab]

Great Question, Simple Answer.
Have you ever seen a move where a card travels between two jokers?
If Yes, was it impromptu?
If the answer is still yes, there is the phase that uses Zach Muellers Move ( I already developed another move which accomplishes the same) with an unique new idea I haven't seen thus far.
If you figured out the whole trailer then there won't be mich new for new. But I didn't show every phase in the trailer so ...

Ten phases is a little long for lay people. Also the first move with the jack and joker changing places is in the Adam Wilbur book in the effect Back-up Plan. When you stack this next to something like The Money Card by Shaun Robison or Recoil by Ollie Mealing, I'm not seeing a reason for me to spend money on this.

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

Well dude, as I claimed in the trailer, there will be 3 Full Routines , each with different phases. You are free to combine them as you want. I have seen The Money Card and Recoil and I think that recoil is nothing special apart from the last phase. I mean you can figure it out in the trailer. ON Money card I really like the last phase but I figured out the rest of the phases. So if you don't want to buy that you will be missing something. And on top of it it's much cheaper than the other routines .
Yeah, just saw the trick you mentioned. Im quite disappointed, I really hoped that I was the first to come up with this. I was quite proud of it

 

[krab]

And on top of it it's much cheaper than the other routines .

This should never be a selling point of magic. Money Card is priced at $30 because it's a worker not because it comes with the wallet (well some of the cost if the props). Just a cup is just over $200 US because it is a worker. The Thing is also expensive. Why? Because strong magic is worth the price to keep it out of the hands of those who just want to know how it's done. It keeps it in the hands of guys making a living from magic or serious about the art. If you have a strong effect, then price it as a strong effect.

ON Money card I really like the last phase but I figured out the rest of the phases. So if you don't want to buy that you will be missing something.

With money card you are buying the work he put into it. If you watch the video and then started doing the routine with out buying it, then you are stealing.

.
Yeah, just saw the trick you mentioned. Im quite disappointed, I really hoped that I was the first to come up with this. I was quite proud of it

This is why it is a good idea to have something other than DVDs and downloads as your research library. I saw your video once and knew which books to find what in.

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

You cant really claim that I didnt put work into, no offense here:
Only because the effect is cheap doesnt mean I didn't put work into it.
I developed my routine for over 6 months and I've been performing it about 500 times so far. It's also a really good worker.
I dont think it's stealing if I figure the trick out, isn't it? I mean I am not downloading it illegaly, so its not really stealing imo.
If I am wrong correct me.

Well I am 16, I dont have much time and money and I like DVDs
So as you already mentioned I dont have that much experience with books. I have been into magic for over a year now and I taught myself the whole thing from YouTube and I have abother problem with books. I bought 2 books on card magic for over 120€ and I didn't really find great ideas. It was absolutely not worth the money . But that's the life.
You know what I think? I think I create the magic myself and if someone else already developed this piece of magic then I can proudly say that I am under the only 2 persons who invented the move Maybe next time I have another idea which hasn't been used already. You learn more if you invent everthing yourself and create. Just my thoughts

 

[krab]

You cant really claim that I didnt put work into, no offense here:
Only because the effect is cheap doesnt mean I didn't put work into it.
I developed my routine for over 6 months and I've been performing it about 500 times so far. It's also a really good worker.
I dont think it's stealing if I figure the trick out, isn't it? I mean I am not downloading it illegaly, so its not really stealing imo.
If I am wrong correct me.

Well I am 16, I dont have much time and money and I like DVDs
So as you already mentioned I dont have that much experience with books. I have been into magic for over a year now and I taught myself the whole thing from YouTube and I have abother problem with books. I bought 2 books on card magic for over 120€ and I didn't really find great ideas. It was absolutely not worth the money . But that's the life.
You know what I think? I think I create the magic myself and if someone else already developed this piece of magic then I can proudly say that I am under the only 2 persons who invented the move Maybe next time I have another idea which hasn't been used already. You learn more if you invent everthing yourself and create. Just my thoughts

I'm going to break this down like a fraction.

1)Working on an effect for six months is not working on it. I practice something for almost a year before I show anyone else.

2)If you watch someone do an effect that is being sold and start doing it with out buying it then yes it is stealing. When you buy an effect you are buying the method and the time the person put into the effect.

3)If you spent 120 euros on two books as a beginner then you are doing it wrong. As a beginner you should have started with Royal Road. It's about $10 US. As a beginner the only expensive books you should own are the Tarbell set.

4) If you really think you are only the second person to come up with that move then you are wrong. Early on I had trouble with the classic force. I "came up" with my own force that looked like the classic force. Then I pick up a book from the early 1900's with the same move from one Johann Nepomuk Hofzinser. Even with a small set of basic classic books you will have a ton of knowledge at your finger tips and can see where these moves came from. To know if it is something original.

 

[Steerpike]

Only because the effect is cheap doesnt mean I didn't put work into it.

Not the buyer's perception.

I developed my routine for over 6 months and I've been performing it about 500 times so far. It's also a really good worker.

Still not ready for market. You need at least a year to fine tune it. And that's the absolute minimum.

I dont think it's stealing if I figure the trick out, isn't it? I mean I am not downloading it illegaly, so its not really stealing imo.
If I am wrong correct me.

Stealing? Not in the legal sense. But it does suggest a certain amount of creative bankruptcy and a rather distressing lack of professional integrity.

Well I am 16, I dont have much time and money and I like DVDs

In that case, stop buying DVDs and buy only books for a couple years. Books will give you a much better value for your money and at your age you should be reading as many books as you can get your hands on.

I have been into magic for over a year now and I taught myself the whole thing from YouTube

Oh dear... This explains so much.

and I have abother problem with books. I bought 2 books on card magic for over 120€ and I didn't really find great ideas. It was absolutely not worth the money . But that's the life.

Which books? Sounds to me like you bought stuff that was too far beyond your level.

You know what I think? I think I create the magic myself and if someone else already developed this piece of magic then I can proudly say that I am under the only 2 persons who invented the move Maybe next time I have another idea which hasn't been used already. You learn more if you invent everthing yourself and create. Just my thoughts

Here's how learning a skill progresses. It goes in five stages in exactly this order over a period of 7 to 10 years, no exceptions:

1. Imitation
2. Comprehension
3. Evaluation
4. Invention
5. Innovation

I have been performing professionally since 2007, and I still haven't reached level 4. With only a year's experience, nothing but YouTube tutorials, and no books, what makes you think you've reached that level?

Also, your sales pitch for this is terrible. Here's the hierarchy of sales:

A bad salesman sells features.
A good salesman sells benefits.
A great salesman sells results.

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

Well That's some fine answer you gave me here. I really appreciate it. Well I actually learnt the basics on YouTube but if you trained every day 3-4 hours for a year you go pretty far. I would never claim I am stage 4 but didn't I invent somethin? I mean why do I have to be stage 4 to invent new things? I am buying now Royal Road, Mark Wilsons Complete Course in Magic and Magic, The Complete Coure by Joshua Jay. I also will purchase "Dont go where the road don't go" by Wonderman Fred. I'd like to implement diffenrent types of principles into my magic. I think I use evivoque the most. Maybe you can tell me some other great resources for a beginner.

 

[krab]

Get the Tarbell PDF. It is like $30 US

Well That's some fine answer you gave me here. I really appreciate it. Well I actually learnt the basics on YouTube but if you trained every day 3-4 hours for a year you go pretty far.

I did three or four hours a day for three years before I felt i was able to really do stuff for the public. Look at the masters they spend years on stuff before they show it. You need to break down each effect. Look at different ways to do it. See what is just clutter and in there for the move junkies. You have to make it your own.

One of my favorite special even effects is Fortune Teller's Book of Days. I liked the idea behind it but I didn't like that it looked like a prop. So I changed the handling. I changed the book. I sat down and hand wrote it. Came up with a story on how I came into the content of said book. Everything about it is Krab. It's not Paul Green's effect based on Alex Elmsley fate date book. It is something that is me. It took me a few years to make it mine but it was worth it.

What we are trying to say is, yews it seems like to know a lot, but if you stick with it in a few years you'll look back and know how much you really didn't know.

 

[Steerpike]

Well That's some fine answer you gave me here. I really appreciate it. Well I actually learnt the basics on YouTube but if you trained every day 3-4 hours for a year you go pretty far.

I remember when I was that cocky.

I would never claim I am stage 4 but didn't I invent somethin?

When I was 8 years old, I accidentally figured out how averages work. By your logic, that means I deserve credit for inventing the mathematical of concept of calculating averages.

I mean why do I have to be stage 4 to invent new things?

That's how the process works. To truly invent, you must first imitate those who came before you as that's how the human brain acquires a new skill set. After imitation comes comprehension when you begin to figure out not just the what but also the how and why. Armed with this knowledge, you go through a lengthy process of evaluation in which you create a value system for your skill set. The hierarchy and order and logic are necessary for invention to occur as you now understand the ways in which the elements that make up your skill set interact with one another. After becoming a master inventor, you then achieve true mastery and begin to innovate. The skill set comes as second nature to you and you're now able to devote your thought processes to new and unconventional ideas, concepts, and systems. It's like seeing the Matrix at this point.

There is not a human alive now or who has ever lived that did not follow this exact process throughout their life on the path to mastery. This applies to everything you do. You can walk across a room now, no problem. But there was a time in your life where bipedal locomotion seemed impossible. This is why you don't see any infants running a triathlon.

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

Just to follow your thought how I created this Routine:
1. I imitated routines like Color Monte and other Monte routines.
2. Then I understood how this works and how it effects the spectator. I sorted out the best phases that fit to me and I continued.
3. While I was sorting out I've already tried to my knowledge at least over 30 phases of 3CM and other routines. I looked what the spectator liked and what fitted my style and then I eliminated the rest. Of course this is only a fraction of what is out there but I watched over 200 videos of 3CM performances and looked up gimmicked effects and non-gimmicked effects. SO that was the moment when I had a dream what my perfect monte routine should look like.
4. Then I tried to come up with methods to actually achieve this thing. It took me 3 months. So I came up with I guess nearly ten ways but none of them was as good as my current phase. Sadly, this move already has been published by another magician. You got you're point there again that IF I had been into magic longer I might have known the move. I don't know how many magicians know the move but I think not everyone bought the book with the move. But that doesn't matter.
5. After performing this routine 500 times and fiiting into my style, change subleties and some moves to make it look more natural I actually thought I innovated from what I've learned so far.
That doesn't make me a magician of a high level, just tryin to show you my creation process.
If I sum it up I performed different 3CM plots nealy 2000 times in a half year, every day.

 

[Steerpike]

Just to follow your thought how I created this Routine:

Apparently I didn't place enough emphasis on the whole 7-10 years thing. This process takes 7-10 years. No exception. This has nothing to do with creating individual tricks. It has everything to do with learning a skill.

Do you remember the last guy who completely revolutionized magic and mentalism after only having practiced one facet of the craft for a year? Neither do I.

 

[krab]

5. After performing this routine 500 times and fiiting into my style, change subleties and some moves to make it look more natural I actually thought I innovated from what I've learned so far. .

For whom did you perform this for 500 times? Was it friends and family? Was it people who pay to see magic?

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

OK, First of all I apologize for being cocky. I guess, as you said, my ego might have surpassed my talent/abilities.
I will tell you my story, then you will understand:
So, I started learning magic from YouTube:
I learned RetroRepro, Double Lifts, Colour Changes, Classic Triumph, and some pen magic (flip stick).
I early realized that YouTube isn't that a great place to learn simply because there aren't that much good tricks out there on YouTube imo.
After 2 months I did Jazz Aces, Retro Repro, a Sandwich Routine and 1 Coin Routine and some rubber band stuff (CMHC). So I really like close-up magic but NOT ONLY card magic, thats way too boring. But we will come to that later. I discovered T11 and I was so wowed that I spend nearly 150$ on this page and in total 700$ in magic. It might have been not the best idea to buy all that stuff but now I know methods I won't use (heavily setup or just a Five Gum Pack where it takes 5 minutes to make one gimmick for one presentation.) I bought the metal trilogy but soon I realized that I am not already ready for that. Then I went to the magic circle and performed for the boss: he told me that what you are telling me. So then I started to really work and invent great presentation and plots people can relate to. I worked so long on an effect until I could present it.
After that I went to another magic circle where they told me that the boss of the other magic circle was a perfectionist and they asked themselves that he thinks to scare off young people. (After 1 month off practice I was able to do the backpalm quite properly.) The other magicians told me that they are surprised how far I am with my presentation style (plots,...) and the level and variety off my tricks. Of course they weren't all perfect but it was quite a good experience.
So now to the important part:
I make myself paragraphs:
I look into ring magic for a month and when I think I've seen enough (I just google: "important ring magic dvds" (only ring) and then there are 3 DVDs and 2 routines (Divorce and Reflex) I could found after long research.) I found then I move on to the next paragraph rubber band magic and then pen magic. (btw I really enjoyed ring magic). So I take out my favourite, always impromptu effects and I keeped practising. They weren't perfect but good enough to present them to sprectators. I wanted to eg. something about mentalism becuz I do a simple evivoque and a prediction effect, a book test and an ESP test. I present it in a proper way and everybody goes nuts. So my point is here: I search the best/most fitting effects for my style, doesn't matter if it use keys, cards, pens, rings or something else as long as I think the magic is entertaining. So far I have maybe 20 trick in my "working repertoire" (effects I consider as funy and so good that I present them to spectators. I maybe know 200 tricks but I simply don't like them.)
My last paragraph was the 3CM plot and I really put a lot of work into it (6 months is half of my magic "career" and for me a heck of a lot of time) and I really thought I invented something great to share with you. Now it isn't like that but I still learned much about the plot and I created my own routine (every phase of the 10 phases were "original" or I just invented them new) and I can profite from it. I never really saw a need to really go deep into card magic but that will be the thing I will do from now on.
But only because I am studying card magic, that won't keep me from learning other stuff too
Cheers
Phil