A quick change

Oct 6, 2007
615
0
Scale of originality: 1
harsh, yeah probably.
But it has been done before, even taught on a DVD by E....

Again, no it's not.

Read my previous post.

The Merlin Tip Over Change is just a utility move ( don't want to expose on here too much). It is not used for a color change, but rather, to do an ACR or a 'Las vegas Card Chaet' routine.

In the Ellusionist DVDs you're talking about, there was never a COLOR CHANGE using this sleight.

Please also read my previous post.
 
Sep 1, 2007
223
1
Florida.
Again, no it's not.
In the Ellusionist DVDs you're talking about, there was never a COLOR CHANGE using this sleight.

http://www.ellusionist.com/product/dvd+training/justin+miller/army+of+52.do

http://www.ellusionist.com/product/accessories/cards/bicycle+ghost+deck.do

Are you telling me that Justin Miller is not using a color change to move the pips on the card. And its the exact same thing you are doing.

Lonnie dillan does a variation of that change as well were he changes the JC into the 4 Aces.

Now thats my part, its not original to you, don't claim it as such, but feel free to keep using it. I don't know why though, since that move is highly suspicious, you completely cover the deck, and it doesn't really look that good anyway

Now bring on the flaming.....
 
Oct 6, 2007
615
0
http://www.ellusionist.com/product/dvd+training/justin+miller/army+of+52.do

http://www.ellusionist.com/product/accessories/cards/bicycle+ghost+deck.do

Are you telling me that Justin Miller is not using a color change to move the pips on the card. And its the exact same thing you are doing.

Lonnie dillan does a variation of that change as well were he changes the JC into the 4 Aces.

Now thats my part, its not original to you, don't claim it as such, but feel free to keep using it. I don't know why though, since that move is highly suspicious, you completely cover the deck, and it doesn't really look that good anyway

Now bring on the flaming.....

Loading a card on top of another, is different to performing a color change- which in my opinion, is an effect whereby one card changes into another in a 'magical' way.

I have Army of 52, and it is not a color change. It's simply using the same sleight to carry out a completely different effect.
 
Sep 1, 2007
223
1
Florida.
I have Army of 52, and it is not a color change. It's simply using the same sleight to carry out a completely different effect.

You just contradicted youself:

However, what I've done here, is use the same principle, but twist it so it becomes a color change.

Many sleights, changes, etc. use the same moves as others, but are slightly modified to achieve something else.

You are using the MTOC to perform a color change, which is EXACTLY what Justin Miller is doing. YOU TOO ARE LOADING A CARD ON TOP! The only difference is that you are just using it as a shodddy color change, we is using the same move to "move pips" on the card.

Loading a card on top of another, is different to performing a color change- which in my opinion, is an effect whereby one card changes into another in a 'magical' way.

I don't know why you are fighting this, its not original, just drop it. ****
 
Oct 6, 2007
615
0
While I appreciate your input, you don't really have any credibility to me ace18.

And I guess we just have different opinions on what's original and what's not.

OH and you're saying that moving pips on a card=changing a card?

....I beg to differ.
 
Sep 1, 2007
223
1
Florida.
While I appreciate your input, you don't really have any credibility to me ace18.

And I guess we just have different opinions on what's original and what's not.

OH and you're saying that moving pips on a card=changing a card?

....I beg to differ.

Wow.
My mind is blow.
The MOVE you are using has been USED BEFORE to accomplish a COLOR CHANGE therefore it is NOT ORIGINAL.

I even found a WAY BETTER variation in booklet form: http://www.jacksdeck.com/10.html The Angled Afterburner, uses the same concept, impoves it and does SO MUCH MORE than just a color change with it.

Yes I am saying in that Justin Millers effect you must perform a COLOR CHANGE to make that pips seem like they are moving, the pips are not actually moving, you you must change the card for it to seem like it moves!

Yes we do have different opinions because I don't try to convince myself anything I create is original!

Anything I create is never mine, I research it, ask around, and until someone tells me it is somewhat original I never say it is mine.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3
0
Turn around...
This is nice if done once for people. And others are right about not showing the bottom card. I didn't notice the bottom card changed until someone mentioned it before me. Using two red kings can be a nice subtly.
 
Sep 2, 2007
84
0
29
California
Ok, so I did some research and while it is similar to the concept which Justin Miller used, I have found that this idea was conceived well before the "Pip Moving" trick.

In "The Collected Almanac" on pg. 160 there is an effect called "Fasten-ation" by J.K. Hartman and he describes something he calls the "The Foldover Change". While he is not using it for a color change (more of a switch), it is still the same exact concept.

I hope this helps...

A
 
Oct 6, 2007
615
0
I guess here is where different viewpoints come in.

In my opinion, a trick is original when you achieve a new effect. This deosn't matter if you use old, or new sleights.

If you do something, to achieve a new effect, that's original.

I guess that is where we stand differently.

I'd also like to reiterate my explanation for those convincers-
THEY WORK. In real life situations, when all of you guys can't manipulate video and watch frame by frame, or pause every .5 of a second, this flys by people.

A simple flash of the face card is good enough to make them beleive it is the same card, because they are similar looking FACE cards. I also opted to use the jack of hearts and king of hearts because they look most similar. the pip is the thing people look at first, and both being hearts, means that the convincer works.
 
Sep 2, 2007
84
0
29
California
I do agree with you in terms of something can be original even if a piece of the effect is not.

But to sum things up, I haven't seen that used as a color change in my experience. Also, i hope my last post didnt come off as me saying this wasn't original to you you, I was just trying to provide a reference for the move. :]

Cheers,
Adrian
 
Oct 6, 2007
615
0
I do agree with you in terms of something can be original even if a piece of the effect is not.

But to sum things up, I haven't seen that used as a color change in my experience. Also, i hope my last post didnt come off as me saying this wasn't original to you you, I was just trying to provide a reference for the move. :]

Cheers,
Adrian

No no!
I appreciate your honestly and your reference.

I'm glad you (hopefully) like it.
 
Sep 1, 2007
458
0
San Diego
is it THAT hard to admit it's probably not original.

youre telling me NOONE EVER had used it as a color change?
let it go, jesus christ, even if it it origninal what the hell is going to happen?

NOTHING
 
Okay, this has gone on waay to long.

Bottom line, no matter what anyone says, this is not original.

This is a very old color change and is used as such in various effects. Justin Miller performs this very move AS A CHANGE in the Ghost Deck preview. This same change is also used (albeit with a slightly different hand motion) in Justin's effect Transfixed. In that DVD he names the change and credits it, sadly I cannot remember the names of either the move or creator.

That being said, this takes nothing away from Darosa's creation or performance. While the technique, move and effect are not original in CREATION to him, he did RE-create it, which is to be commended. However, this in no way makes anyones claims of this being original in any sense to be true. Fact, it is not original.

And, in case you are wondering, Wikipedia defines original as:

Wikipedia.org said:
Originality is the aspect of created or invented works by as being new or novel, and thus can be distinguished from reproductions, clones, forgeries, or derivative works. An original work is one not received from others nor one copied based on the work of others. The term "originality" is often applied as a compliment to the creativity of artists, writers, and thinkers.


Sharp
 
Oct 6, 2007
615
0
What I still don't understand, is how loading a card on top of another, is a CHANGE? Ok, you may say that TECHNICALLY the card has changed, but it is not a color change?
 
Oct 6, 2007
615
0
is it THAT hard to admit it's probably not original.

youre telling me NOONE EVER had used it as a color change?
let it go, jesus christ, even if it it origninal what the hell is going to happen?

NOTHING

How about you go crap yourself, as your signature says?
 
Nov 6, 2007
140
0
What I still don't understand, is how loading a card on top of another, is a CHANGE? Ok, you may say that TECHNICALLY the card has changed, but it is not a color change?

Wow, you're really quite stubborn aren't you?

The effect is not original, nor is the change. I'm pretty sure anyone who has fooled around with this concept has used it as a color change as well, myself included.

I did say before though that I liked the convincers you used. They would probably work in real life. However, I'm not really fond of you accusing everyone of going back and pausing the video to find out they were 2 different cards, because I caught it on the first view, as I'm sure many others did as well.

I don't see what the big deal is really...
 
Sep 1, 2007
458
0
San Diego
i would crap myself if you had anything amazing to say.

dude, place a card on top of another is a color change.....

erdanase.......

the 4 of spades or whatever changes in to a different 4 of spades with a pip or whatever moved.

seems to me you're just being pissy now because you didnt invent it.

get over it, what youve done IS NOT NEW or ORIGINAL, its really not that amazing, just let it go and just admit youre not a magic genius who has invented a color change
 
Oct 6, 2007
615
0
@ sjsawer:

It's not a big deal.

You;re just making it one.

All I said in my last 10 posts in this thread was how loading a card on top of another is the same thing as a color change.

As for the convincers...I applaud you for catching it on the first go. You must have some superhero power eyes. Would you like a medal?

@ Guardian452:

I'm not even going to bother defending myself from someone who puts words in other people's mouths.
 
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