Ambidexterity

[Monerya]

I've put this up on a few other places, but I'm wondering what you guys think:

I'm mainly a card/odd objects (rubber bands, pen and paper, my body a'la control) guy but just recently got into coins.
What I'm wondering is your view on ambidexterity (not being right or left handed). In the beginning I always tried to learn my sleights with both hands, mainly so that I could do it with any hand depending on where I had the audience. I'd say I have pretty good audience control, but it's always better the less you have to move your body around.

Then a thought struck me: Every second I spent on learning a sleight with my left hand could've been used perfecting that sleight even further with my right hand, making it seem like a waste.
But now as I've gotten into coins I still have my preffered hand, but I feel I really have to do a great classic palm and so on in my left hand, but not reverse moves like the marionette count.

So, what are your views on this? Is it better to get used to certain moves with certain hands, or should you learn some if not everything so you could mirror it?

 

[AlexanderB]

Before you start learning some sleight or move, be sure to find out: in what hand it feels the most comfortable way for you? In the left hand, you say? Use your left hand. In your right hand? Use your right hand. It's all about comfort. I have a friend, female ambidextrous magician, I asked her to give her opinion on this situation, just like you're doing right now. And she asked just like I did above. But it was just a point of interest for me, I am right handed.

 

[Monerya]

Thanks for the reply, but I might have to clarify a bit: If, say you're right handed, do you feel the need to learn some, (and if so, wich ones?) sleights with your left hand, to be able to mirror it depending on where you have your audience?

I'm right handed myself, but in the start I thought it would give me such an advantage that it was worth learning the downs coin palm, the snap change, tenkai vanish and so with my left hand, but when I got to things like the pass I felt it was redundant in comparison to taking the extra time to REALLY get the sleight down.
What are your views on this?

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

If there's a good reason to learn a sleight in both hands, or my off-hand, then I do so. There are very few things that absolutely must be done in one hand or the other, though, so I just use whichever works best for the situation. And any time spent working toward a better version of your effects is time well spent.

 

[Elite Prestidigitation]

At a young age I found out that Both of my hands are just as great...However my right arm is better at some things...But If you compare the dexterity and control of my "weaker" arm to a regular guy you would realize that I have more precision on my "weaker" hand than his stronger hand... Essentially I can choose to use whatever hand I please.

 

[praetoritevong]

Thanks for the reply, but I might have to clarify a bit: If, say you're right handed, do you feel the need to learn some, (and if so, wich ones?) sleights with your left hand, to be able to mirror it depending on where you have your audience?

I'm right handed myself, but in the start I thought it would give me such an advantage that it was worth learning the downs coin palm, the snap change, tenkai vanish and so with my left hand, but when I got to things like the pass I felt it was redundant in comparison to taking the extra time to REALLY get the sleight down.
What are your views on this?

One question: why? Why can't you turn your body to change the angles, as opposed to change hands, for example? It's not like you're walking around the audience - it's not a big a movement as you make it out to be, and even if it was, it doesn't really matter if you know your theatre. I consciously try to move around, actually. There are some sleights which are easier to justify being ambidextrous than others, coin palms are one of them. Card palms, not as much. False counts, almost never.

"But now as I've gotten into coins I still have my preffered hand, but I feel I really have to do a great classic palm and so on in my left hand, but not reverse moves like the marionette count." Then do it for the classic palm, but not the marionette count. Easy.

Do it if you have a specific purpose for doing so. (eg a card under box routine I like requires a specific left handed palm. Fine.)

Or do it if you really want to be able to do so. (eg you want to do a specific production with your left hand just because.)

Otherwise, I think time can be better spent on other things if you neither want to do it nor need to do it.

 

[zdogmagic]

At a young age I found out that Both of my hands are just as great...However my right arm is better at some things...But If you compare the dexterity and control of my "weaker" arm to a regular guy you would realize that I have more precision on my "weaker" hand than his stronger hand... Essentially I can choose to use whatever hand I please.

i dont think he wanted to know what you can do and he cant. i think he wanted to no how to learn the different moves... in my opinion, Monerya, i would learn a coin move with both hands at the same time to see which one feels better. for instance, i can muscle pass a coin with my right hand only, but i have a better finger palm with my left hand. strange huh? but thats what feels right for me... u just need to find whats right for u.

 

[Jacob]

At a young age I found out that Both of my hands are just as great...However my right arm is better at some things...But If you compare the dexterity and control of my "weaker" arm to a regular guy you would realize that I have more precision on my "weaker" hand than his stronger hand... Essentially I can choose to use whatever hand I please.

[SARCASM] And what are you doing speaking to us peasants!? Shouldnt you be out touring the world? Please teach me how to be even half as good as you great master! [/SARCASM]

 

[zdogmagic]

hey jacob,

as i said to the "elite"

he wasnt asking for what you can do and he cant...

 

[Elite Prestidigitation]

One question: why? Why can't you turn your body to change the angles, as opposed to change hands, for example?

Maybe...maybe he is like me...and I don't mean "like me" I mean C'mon....But like me in the way that he likes to challenge himself and excel as a technician...Doing what you suggested is the lazy way out...Anyone can do that....That is the difference between you and me...I don't take shortcuts...Almost everything in life demands struggle...Those who take the easy way out become lazy, selfish, and insensitive to the real values of life....It takes time and energy to Truly become...An Elite Prestidigitator..Not just that..But an Elite in Life itself..."The very striving and hard work that we so constantly try to avoid is the major building block in the person we are today"....And that is why I am me and you are not...You can try to be me...You should try to be me...But you will not succeed....I am not Bound by limitations.

Elite Prestidigitation.

And what are you doing speaking to us peasants!?

Do not question me...Learn from me.

i dont think he wanted to know what you can do and he cant.

You are posting from a position of ignorance...A lot of people wish to know more about my skills and achievements.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Thank god (or, more accurately, the T11 web developers) for the 'Ignore User' feature.

 

[Luis Vega]

well I am not ambidexterous..(spell check) but I execute different sleights with different hands...sometimes my right hand is better for things that my left hand is not...

when I am learning a new sleight, I check in which hand is more confortable...then I work it there...

on other side...I am not ambidexterous..but both my arms have the exactly same strength...and that has been helpful sometimes...

 

[Monerya]

One question: why? Why can't you turn your body to change the angles, as opposed to change hands, for example? It's not like you're walking around the audience - it's not a big a movement as you make it out to be, and even if it was, it doesn't really matter if you know your theatre. I consciously try to move around, actually. There are some sleights which are easier to justify being ambidextrous than others, coin palms are one of them. Card palms, not as much. False counts, almost never.

I see your point and agree to most of it, as this was not supposed to come across as a "I don't know what to do, help me" thread, but more of a discussion of what you're views are on this particular subject. But to answer the question, to me it's all about fine points, for example the tenkai vanish. I feel that if I could really vanish a card I held in my left hand I would display it and instantly vanish it, if I for some reason would have to take the card, table the deck, swing over and take the card in my other hand it seems more like: I'm about to do something really sneaky and I must be standing this way for some reason and hold the card in this hand for some reason.
Of course, with some presentation and casualness it can be done, easily, but what I'm insecure about is if that slight enhancement is worth the practice.
In my opinion it's different depending on the sleight, but I'm curious as to where you create the border, how you approach it, what advantages and disadvantages you see in it, and what you can ad at all to the discussion. I'm right handed, just to clarify.

@Elite Prestidigitator: I do like challenges, and you inspired me to become living proof that you can be an amazing magician without being a complete douche.

 

[praetoritevong]

Don't overthink it.

What do you want to do?

What would be best to do?

If you think it's worth it, for your trick, in your situation, for your body, then do it. If you think it's worth the practice, then do it. The line, I think, is drawn as a function of time, effort, desire and payoff.

 

[nexusmagic]

Oh my lord Christopher "...I can make sweet sweet love to your bulbous head." Warden from Superjail Don't click the link if you are offended by humorously horrific gore, Comedy or profanity. Basically everything that is in video games now a days.

Thanks for making me aware of the ignore user button

But to contribute, there has been times when I definitely need to be able to do sleights in both hands, it is just unavoidable. Like in some complex coin work I need to be able to finger palm and classic palm in both right and left hands. If I had learned how to do that sooner then later I would actually be performing the effects right now for live audiences.

There are many valid points to the reasons onto why or why not you should learn to be ambidextrous, however it isn't completely necessary to learn how to be ambidextrous right out of the starting gate.

 

[saborfang17]

I've always thought about this, but I've never had much control doing sleights as a leftie. They just come off as harder to me, even though I'm equally skilled with both hands in lacrosse and left-handed in baseball. But I don't know, it's just different. The few coin sleights I do I can do with both hands since I started doing coin magic with both hands to master something with both hands. However, cards, I can't. Except for a few color changes and a back-palm.

Personally, I think if you're starting something new you may as well take time to perfect it in the other hand, unless it's already difficult enough to do perfectly, like the pass.

@Elite
Trust me when I say that nobody gives one big solid F%$K about what you can do. Honestly.

 

[tokyoUW]

For card magic, not so important to be able to do sleights with both hands. For coin magic, you will be better for it if you learn with both hands. You can bet that magicians like David Roth, Ponta the Smith, Eric Jones, can classic palm, finer palm, retention vanish, shuttle pass, clink pass, etc... with both hands, going from left to right.

For coins, if you want more flexibility with your routines/ routining, then learn with both hands.