Wouldn't you be mad if, lets say Lee, left T11 and made a magic site that was better, and took some of the creative minds with him?
Anybody else skeptical?
- Thread starter Jaz
- Start date
Wouldn't you be mad if, lets say Lee, left T11 and made a magic site that was better, and took some of the creative minds with him?
I really believe the founders have good intentions. It's certain individuals who are on the wrong page.
I made no such thread.
I've been advocating people to stop fostering these non-existent rivalries since I got here.
Steerpike,
You are right, I believe I have mistaken a quote from the "Call me a Cynic" Thread. However, there is a trend of a certain level of negativity in your posts.
That is probably where most people may read you wrong. I did read that you would like to see the site succeed. It just seems that you are not a fan of anybody.
KE
You are right, I believe I have mistaken a quote from the "Call me a Cynic" Thread. However, there is a trend of a certain level of negativity in your posts.
That is probably where most people may read you wrong. I did read that you would like to see the site succeed. It just seems that you are not a fan of anybody.
KE
There are good people here who have the right idea. But these early hours of the new forums seem to be drawing out of the woodwork a lot of people with foolish notions of what the purpose of these boards is.
I'm not the only one who wants to see things improve around here, I'm just the most blunt and sarcastic about it.
I'm not the only one who wants to see things improve around here, I'm just the most blunt and sarcastic about it.
<sigh>
Ok then.
The place is is hyped up magic store based on one mans arroance. Over priced effets that most of the time go UNCREDITED to the original creators.
So kids, dont beleive me? Read yourself, but watch for Brad Christans response. His ego couldent settle the argument like an Adult so he ends up offering the Genii forum to a magic contest (lmfao)
http://geniimagazine.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000392#000035
I can see the E groupies are going start crying here, say they have changed there tune.
Not so.
The recent Loops DVD had Garcia explain an effect without the owners permission (Not Dannys fault apparently). This ended up in a big argument including Nathan Kranzo, E's PR, Brad Christian and others.
It ended up with Nathan Kranzo severing all ties with E .
http://themagicwoods.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4160&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150
You gotta ask yourself why this place was started? Its made up of disgruntled ex employe's of Ellusionist for gods sake.
No one ever said anybody was perfect. Ellusionist have made mistakes and I did not like how they handled certain events. In cases such as the split with the Bucks I simply figured whatever disagreement was none of my business, and I truly believe it wasn't. I can still buy The Trilogy at my local magic shop so it wasn't a big deal to me.
I do believe Brad has made a few bad steps along the way, but if you're asking to say that his critics are any better, don't hold your breath. I would still rather associate with Brad Christian than Jamie Ian Swiss for example.
Though I am wary of some of the recent decisions of Ellusionist, I've decided to sit on this one and see what comes out. Until then, I find it obnoxious to hear many magicians playing Chicken Little over one man, as so many of you seem so prone to do.
What aggrivates me the most about the issue is how many of you can't wait to take another chance to cram it right down my throat. I dislike Penguin's business practices, but I don't point it out with the same frequency or apparent vehement relish that some of you do.
So my final word on this? I'm keeping my eyes open, but at the same time I'm laying low and watching it play out.
I do believe Brad has made a few bad steps along the way, but if you're asking to say that his critics are any better, don't hold your breath. I would still rather associate with Brad Christian than Jamie Ian Swiss for example.
Though I am wary of some of the recent decisions of Ellusionist, I've decided to sit on this one and see what comes out. Until then, I find it obnoxious to hear many magicians playing Chicken Little over one man, as so many of you seem so prone to do.
What aggrivates me the most about the issue is how many of you can't wait to take another chance to cram it right down my throat. I dislike Penguin's business practices, but I don't point it out with the same frequency or apparent vehement relish that some of you do.
So my final word on this? I'm keeping my eyes open, but at the same time I'm laying low and watching it play out.
I understand and sympathize with the concerns that many of you have voiced. However, I would like to see the discussion here stay civil. No one company is perfect, including us, but arguing over which site / person sucks more isn't really what we were hoping these forums would be about.
I understand the skepticism. I probably would be skeptical too if I weren't involved in this project, but I am involved and I can tell that I believe in this team of people 100% with no reservations. Every single one of them.
It seems to me that a lot of you share our vision too. I believe that we will deliver if you give us a chance to, but it will take time. All I ask is that you suspend judgment until we have a chance to get our feet wet. We have some very cool projects coming soon. In the meantime, thank you to everyone for the support. It keeps us inspired and keeps us going.
Dana
I understand the skepticism. I probably would be skeptical too if I weren't involved in this project, but I am involved and I can tell that I believe in this team of people 100% with no reservations. Every single one of them.
It seems to me that a lot of you share our vision too. I believe that we will deliver if you give us a chance to, but it will take time. All I ask is that you suspend judgment until we have a chance to get our feet wet. We have some very cool projects coming soon. In the meantime, thank you to everyone for the support. It keeps us inspired and keeps us going.
Dana
I too understand why some of you are unsure about this site. I came on and was pumped, and I really do love the site. After listening to Lee Asher talk about everything that is wrong with magic, with the aid of Aaron Fisher, i knew that this was going to be a great site with huge ideas. I can't wait to see what is coming next.
i guess we ought to give the t11 guys a chance to prove themselves as they claim to be. much as we E haters like to bash them at every chance we have, it is quite destructive to one of the main aims that t11 is trying to promote - unity. If t11 proves to be "E 2.0" as someone mentioned, then i guess some ranting may be warranted but it is still so early for anyone to make an accurate judgement! =D
p.s. will allowing us to change the theme to a lighter tone be possible? the forum just resembles E too much for my liking. i guess it may also have a psychological effect on many users... =D
p.s. will allowing us to change the theme to a lighter tone be possible? the forum just resembles E too much for my liking. i guess it may also have a psychological effect on many users... =D
I dig the look, as a web designer and graphic artist (hobby), I really respect the time and effort put into the CSS, AS, flash and general html that the site has. Oh, and I'm impartial to the industrial look, cause I dig industrial music. 
As for E... I don't care what their business practices are. They are a very successful company, and have some great products. They also have some not so great products. They've always been helpful and courteous to me, and I will continue to buy from them until they aren't.
T11 has also been very courteous and kind. My wife purchased a DVD of distortion for me and shipped it to the wrong address. She emailed them and they changed it before shipment, no questions asked, just good customer service.
People need to quit being anti-E anti-T11, etc.. when you have a group of people such as ourselves... magicians, we need to be bringing ourselves closer together, not further apart. I'm getting sick of this back and forth.
There is room for both places, and there will continue to be room for them. It can only have a better effect on us, the consumer because they will be competing to develop the best, most visual magic they can, and we can only benefit from that.
As for E... I don't care what their business practices are. They are a very successful company, and have some great products. They also have some not so great products. They've always been helpful and courteous to me, and I will continue to buy from them until they aren't.
T11 has also been very courteous and kind. My wife purchased a DVD of distortion for me and shipped it to the wrong address. She emailed them and they changed it before shipment, no questions asked, just good customer service.
People need to quit being anti-E anti-T11, etc.. when you have a group of people such as ourselves... magicians, we need to be bringing ourselves closer together, not further apart. I'm getting sick of this back and forth.
There is room for both places, and there will continue to be room for them. It can only have a better effect on us, the consumer because they will be competing to develop the best, most visual magic they can, and we can only benefit from that.
This site resembles E in several ways, whether you guys want to believe it or not. Custom cards, exclusive effects by well-known artists, a product category entitled "gear," etc. They have their own forums, they have in-house artists that produce effects for them. . . heck, the former CEO of E works here.
I don't really understand the hostility toward Ellusionist. It's a shop. If you don't like it, shop somewhere else. I like E because it has effects I like that I can't find anywhere else, and they market dvds that are more than just single tricks. I'm very eager to purchase the Geurilla Guide to Loops, but up till now it just hasn't been the right time. I like this site for some of the same reasons. Getting too attached to a site is dangerous. It's smart to keep several magic shops in your favorites list, just so you can shop around and find different things from different places.
As far as E and T11 attracting obnoxious little kids who expose things on Youtube. . . not my problem. I am a serious magician, and the fact that a bunch of little kids have exposed one of my effects on Youtube will not keep me from performing it. You can't judge a company by looking at the worst section of its customer base. The truth is, there's good magic to be learned at E, and there's good magic to be learned at T11. As long as that fact stands, I'll gladly shop at both sites.
This rant is getting a little long, but the whole ethics thing is starting to drive me up the wall. I believe magicians should have good ethics, but the complaints on E about Penguin's ethics and the complaints here about E's ethics. . . it's a big circle of he-said she-said nonsense. When I'm shopping at a site, I could care less about the politics that site has with others. I just want to go in, buy my products, check out, and find my stuff in the mail three or four days later, well-packaged. As long as those basic qualifications are met, I don't really care if the company kills a puppy for every dvd they manufacture.
I don't really understand the hostility toward Ellusionist. It's a shop. If you don't like it, shop somewhere else. I like E because it has effects I like that I can't find anywhere else, and they market dvds that are more than just single tricks. I'm very eager to purchase the Geurilla Guide to Loops, but up till now it just hasn't been the right time. I like this site for some of the same reasons. Getting too attached to a site is dangerous. It's smart to keep several magic shops in your favorites list, just so you can shop around and find different things from different places.
As far as E and T11 attracting obnoxious little kids who expose things on Youtube. . . not my problem. I am a serious magician, and the fact that a bunch of little kids have exposed one of my effects on Youtube will not keep me from performing it. You can't judge a company by looking at the worst section of its customer base. The truth is, there's good magic to be learned at E, and there's good magic to be learned at T11. As long as that fact stands, I'll gladly shop at both sites.
This rant is getting a little long, but the whole ethics thing is starting to drive me up the wall. I believe magicians should have good ethics, but the complaints on E about Penguin's ethics and the complaints here about E's ethics. . . it's a big circle of he-said she-said nonsense. When I'm shopping at a site, I could care less about the politics that site has with others. I just want to go in, buy my products, check out, and find my stuff in the mail three or four days later, well-packaged. As long as those basic qualifications are met, I don't really care if the company kills a puppy for every dvd they manufacture.
i think jaz has valid concerns. i know him from the cafe and his a knowledgable magician that has much to offer.
im not sure why poeple are jumping on him. i don;t think he was "dodging" a question, rather not trying to get people fired up and make a issue out it.
i know many of you are ellusionist fan and you feel you need to "stick up" for them. just like you have your point of view there are many others that have thiers, instead of a "burn'em at the stake" mantility. if you find someone's thoughts unfounded tell them why you think so , and not "d00d you must be 6 years old E rocks and your a whiner!"
im not sure why poeple are jumping on him. i don;t think he was "dodging" a question, rather not trying to get people fired up and make a issue out it.
i know many of you are ellusionist fan and you feel you need to "stick up" for them. just like you have your point of view there are many others that have thiers, instead of a "burn'em at the stake" mantility. if you find someone's thoughts unfounded tell them why you think so , and not "d00d you must be 6 years old E rocks and your a whiner!"