Breaking the Barrier

[jok3r]

whats up everyone, i was doing some tricks for a friend of my dads.
nice guy, but hes kinda of a heckler. Hes not mean about it, but his favorite line is "im not a moron "
im doing the same effects in which Ive got great reaction from my neighbors, and people at church.
Yet nothing works on him

is their just certain people who wont believe?
I know its not my job to fool people, but to entertain them.
but i part of being entertained sometimes is fooling them.

is their a way to break this barrier? or should i just not do tricks for him and people like him.

joel paschall uses a quote in his believe video
he said "the job of the artist is to convince the world of his lie.
i think maybe thats just impossible for some poeple?
maybe im wrong


now i think apart of it is him knowing me, but im just kinda lost at this point.
one minute im getting great reactions and laughes, another im getting i know how you did that im not a moron.

if i think someone is going to be like this while im doing an effect, should i just stop after the effect and walk away?

just kinda gets to me sometimes, not sure what to do about it.

any advice would be great.

(yes im a noob, so go easy on me.)

 

[LuseifHo]

Ive had this problem when i first started magic and what not.
Once you get mroe experience, you can make decisions on what to do.
Lemme just start off by saying 85% of all the people I know dont believe in magic or powers or whatever. They have no idea how I do stuff but they decide it is a incredible skill or deception I am performing. So I wouldn't really say "how to make people believe".
The person you described there is not what I would call a heckler, but more of a knowitall. He doesn't want to look fooled so he thinks of a explanation no matter what. Sometimes, he may be right, sometimes he may not.
I would prevent this by perfecting every single move and technique you use till its flawless. This way, when he says he knows how you do it, you can ask him. 20% of the time, they get it right. When they do, i usually have an out where i just use a different method which negates their explanation. When they are wrong, I usually agree and see what happens.
Another thing you can do.... is do what you do to hecklers. This will probably piss him and your dad off. "Im not a moron" "Really? wouldn't know from looking at you" or something of the sort. This usually gets them pissed which makes them want to heckle you, but it also messes with their perception, which is pretty sweet.
As you have suggested. can you just not perform to him. This is a possibility. "Im not a moron" "ah... what a smart man.... bye". Hell end up feeling smart, and you can end up ignoring him. Its all good. haha
The final thing you can do is just raise it up a notch. Do a trick where it is extremely hard to figure out. One of which i use is Joshua Jay's Split Decision. No one has ever figured this out, no one ever will. Do this, and if he says "Im not a moron". Ask him how you do it. he wont be able to tell you. Gimmicks are usually a sure thing for these people. As they do not know what gimmicks there are, this usually confuses them. Sleights are things they can catch and may figure out. Gimmicks have their own working and only a person who is extremely intelligent or has seen the gimmick before will work it out.
hope this helps.
ah well.
gain more experience and youll know for yourself

 

[jok3r]

Ive had this problem when i first started magic and what not.
Once you get mroe experience, you can make decisions on what to do.
Lemme just start off by saying 85% of all the people I know dont believe in magic or powers or whatever. They have no idea how I do stuff but they decide it is a incredible skill or deception I am performing. So I wouldn't really say "how to make people believe".
The person you described there is not what I would call a heckler, but more of a knowitall. He doesn't want to look fooled so he thinks of a explanation no matter what. Sometimes, he may be right, sometimes he may not.
I would prevent this by perfecting every single move and technique you use till its flawless. This way, when he says he knows how you do it, you can ask him. 20% of the time, they get it right. When they do, i usually have an out where i just use a different method which negates their explanation. When they are wrong, I usually agree and see what happens.
Another thing you can do.... is do what you do to hecklers. This will probably piss him and your dad off. "Im not a moron" "Really? wouldn't know from looking at you" or something of the sort. This usually gets them pissed which makes them want to heckle you, but it also messes with their perception, which is pretty sweet.
As you have suggested. can you just not perform to him. This is a possibility. "Im not a moron" "ah... what a smart man.... bye". Hell end up feeling smart, and you can end up ignoring him. Its all good. haha
The final thing you can do is just raise it up a notch. Do a trick where it is extremely hard to figure out. One of which i use is Joshua Jay's Split Decision. No one has ever figured this out, no one ever will. Do this, and if he says "Im not a moron". Ask him how you do it. he wont be able to tell you. Gimmicks are usually a sure thing for these people. As they do not know what gimmicks there are, this usually confuses them. Sleights are things they can catch and may figure out. Gimmicks have their own working and only a person who is extremely intelligent or has seen the gimmick before will work it out.
hope this helps.
ah well.
gain more experience and youll know for yourself

gimmicks sound like a good idea.
im also thinking about some anytime metalism or object magic.

thanks for the advice,

 

[jok3r]

what book is Joshua Jay's Split Decision in?

 

[Ben Long]

I always get people like this.

They're really nice about figuring all your material out. It's a horrible feeling.

Here's what I do. I go into my whole "this is actually how this works" routine, where I show them some gambler sleights--stuff that puts me on their side. Once I've gained their trust, I lie to them by saying I'm doing one thing and then doing another. For instance, I talk about switching cards and then do Paul Harris' simple switch. And they believe my lie and they're impressed.

 

[jok3r]

im not sure i follow the simple switch thing

could you please explain.

i like what your explain

 

[Ben Long]

Well, the simple switch is a cool little flourish in which one basically juggles cards, switching them in midair. In AoA, Harris teaches a way to switch them instantly. I won't go into it for fear of exposure.

 

[jazzhands1]

I usually do a couple things for hecklers....

1. Hedberg's peak. I won't expose it here, look up the performance on the internet.

2. Usually, I force a card and control it to the top. Next, I turnover a double, and say that this is their card. The heckler will obviously say no, and (of course) think that they "caught" you. Then, I execute an ego change, and ask them to take a 2nd look...

 

[jok3r]

I usually do a couple things for hecklers....

1. Hedberg's peak. I won't expose it here, look up the performance on the internet.

2. Usually, I force a card and control it to the top. Next, I turnover a double, and say that this is their card. The heckler will obviously say no, and (of course) think that they "caught" you. Then, I execute an ego change, and ask them to take a 2nd look...

i think most of the time that will work, but for this guy he will say well that not the top card or something like that.

i think its crazy how blaine can do some of the simplest dl changes and it "amazing"
i guess it really is mostly about the performance and the look he has

 

[jazzhands1]

i think most of the time that will work, but for this guy he will say well that not the top card or something like that.

i think its crazy how blaine can do some of the simplest dl changes and it "amazing"
i guess it really is mostly about the performance and the look he has

It's called "Politics." It makes people look more amazing than they actually are.

Sorry, had to throw a lawyer joke in there.

 

[cm763]

Honestly, it's probably your performance. I'm not saying it to be mean, but rather honest, so you can improve on it. I've seen people make the same claim before (nice or mean heckler, knowing how they do it or just not getting great reactions--it's all the same in the end; you're not getting the reactions you want or think you should be getting). In the end, it comes down to performance. Try changing up your script--everything from the storyline right down to the patter--to match who you are. Then, practice it until you get sick of practicing, and then practice a bit more. It's not so much the sleights or even the specific trick you're doing...it's about making the trick work for you, matching it to your personality, and going from there.

 

[jok3r]

i completely understand that, but im using the same performance ive used on everyone else. theyve went over fine, thats why i think its just apart of him or them knowing me personally

 

[jok3r]

It's called "Politics." It makes people look more amazing than they actually are.

Sorry, had to throw a lawyer joke in there.

hahahahaha
its all a conspiracy

 

[Randomwrath]

No one has ever figured this out, no one ever will.

If you want a great trick that nobody will EVER figure out, I can name one (recently become one of my favourites). Do you have Chris Kenner's TOoC? If so, take a look at Sybil the Trick. This one trick is worth the price of the whole book in my opinion. The other tricks could just be bonuses. Seriously, if he thinks he's figured this one, you can perfectly confidently call his bluff.
By the way, I am by no means saying that the best way to deal with hecklers is to fool them even worse. This will possibly make them angry. Bad move. But if you do decide you need some new tricks that are unfigureoutable, Totally Out of Control is the book to read.

 

[LuseifHo]

I usually do a couple things for hecklers....

1. Hedberg's peak. I won't expose it here, look up the performance on the internet.

2. Usually, I force a card and control it to the top. Next, I turnover a double, and say that this is their card. The heckler will obviously say no, and (of course) think that they "caught" you. Then, I execute an ego change, and ask them to take a 2nd look...

I dont think this will work
both those tricks are sleight of hand based, which gives them a chance to figure it out.
Things like doubles and forces can easily be figured out no matter how well you execute it

 

[LuseifHo]

If you want a great trick that nobody will EVER figure out, I can name one (recently become one of my favourites). Do you have Chris Kenner's TOoC? If so, take a look at Sybil the Trick. This one trick is worth the price of the whole book in my opinion. The other tricks could just be bonuses. Seriously, if he thinks he's figured this one, you can perfectly confidently call his bluff.
By the way, I am by no means saying that the best way to deal with hecklers is to fool them even worse. This will possibly make them angry. Bad move. But if you do decide you need some new tricks that are unfigureoutable, Totally Out of Control is the book to read.

haha
why not piss them off?
they feel stupid, you feel smarter, they cant figure it out, they stomp off, no more heckler. XD

 

[LuseifHo]

what book is Joshua Jay's Split Decision in?

I dunno if its in any books or not
you can buy it seperately and it comes with gimmicks.
you can also buy the gimmicks alone as refills

 

[LuseifHo]

Honestly, it's probably your performance. I'm not saying it to be mean, but rather honest, so you can improve on it. I've seen people make the same claim before (nice or mean heckler, knowing how they do it or just not getting great reactions--it's all the same in the end; you're not getting the reactions you want or think you should be getting). In the end, it comes down to performance. Try changing up your script--everything from the storyline right down to the patter--to match who you are. Then, practice it until you get sick of practicing, and then practice a bit more. It's not so much the sleights or even the specific trick you're doing...it's about making the trick work for you, matching it to your personality, and going from there.

I do think that this is a good advice, but I dont think it exactly fixes the problem. No matter how well you present a trick, if they know how you do it, they still will. they might not speak up about it, but they still will.

 

[Randomwrath]

haha
why not piss them off?
they feel stupid, you feel smarter, they cant figure it out, they stomp off, no more heckler. XD

Because by pissing them off, you aren't entertaining them, thus meaning you're failing in your job as a magician.
If you have to resort to making hecklers storm off, that's fine but isn't it better to entertain them and get them on your side? That way everyone's happy and you don't make any enemies.

 

[praetoritevong]

Hey man..

First off: YES, there are some people, who, for varying reasons, will not budge at magic. Usually, YES, it is also possible to impress them - there are many stories of people impressing others who normally don't budge at anything. However, for the most part, it's enough to know that they exist, it's enough to make them even just smile, or nod in appreciation, even if you don't grab the "ZOMGWTFGGPWNAGEQQ" reaction.

I like Ben Long's idea - go with what does appeal to them - if they like analysing things, fool them by appealing to that.