Deciding on Magic

Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I am brand new to this forum, now I see how it helps. I'm not trying to sound childish, but I just can't quite put thought into word which makes this hard for me to discuss.

We just need you to answer the questions we're asking. Christopher and I do paid shows for a living. We go through this process all the time and we're trying to walk you through it, but complaining doesn't help you or any of us.
 
Sep 25, 2013
9
0
If I seem like I'm complaining, I am sorry. I guess I am just overwhelmed.

Let me start over.

I am performing for roughly 250 people in a fairly large setting for around 20 - 30 minutes. No stage.
My act is basically written out. The tricks I plan on performing are Invisible deck, Ambitious card, pressure, other visual, flourishy tricks, and dresscode. I will also talk about magic in general. My style is based around street magic, so I don't have large stage effects. I do need to expand on the list. That is why I would love recommendations.
I'm comfortable with any sort of prop that wouldn't seem too unusual in a normal street scene.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I am performing for roughly 250 people in a fairly large setting for around 20 - 30 minutes.

Okay... Do they have sound? Will you have a mic? Will they be standing or seated? If seated, at tables or in more of an auditorium style?

My act is basically written out. The tricks I plan on performing are Invisible deck, Ambitious card, pressure, other visual, flourishy tricks, and dresscode.

Okay, when you say written out, how do you mean? Do you have a script that you are rehearsing? Because just looking at that list... It's a collection of stuff that has no inherent connection or relation to anything outside of being all about playing cards up until the last possible second. I see no flow here. I see no logical progression. I don't understand how you make these transition from one to the next, how you segue.

And to fill 20 minutes, each one of these effects would have to take about 5 minutes each. Each. Can you make an ACR last 5 minutes? Because I can't. I've seen maybe two ACR performances with more than 3 phases that didn't make me want to fall asleep standing up. Don't get me wrong, the ACR is a classic for a reason. But when done poorly with too many phases and not enough showmanship, it is the pasteboard equivalent of Chinese water torture. Badly performed card magic in general will slowly erode your brain's defenses, wearing it down and numbing it until you finally can't take anymore, surrender, and find yourself saying, "I understand now. Gray's Anatomy is entertaining."

I will also talk about magic in general. My style is based around street magic, so I don't have large stage effects. I do need to expand on the list. That is why I would love recommendations.
I'm comfortable with any sort of prop that wouldn't seem too unusual in a normal street scene.

Okay, you have not listed a single book. That's not good. Street magic (as you understand it) does not transition easily to parlor settings. The leap can be made... but not without some effort.

You're going to go to the library tomorrow and find a copy of Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic. You are not going to so much as glance at the card section until you have read Mark's essays in there and perused the non-card sections to get an idea of what your fundamentals should look like. You are going to select a dozen different effects using basic sleight of hand that you believe you could successfully learn through daily practice in the two-month period you have. You're going to come back here with that list next week, and we are going to help you create a routine and script that you are going to rehearse, not just practice but rehearse, every single day, including at least once the day of your show before you leave for the venue.

Two months is not as long as you would think. It's really not. What you need more than anything is a solid foundation, a crash course in basic showmanship and theatricality, and a metric ass-ton of resolve that you are going to see this thing through to the end no matter how boring the rehearsals and practice might get.

You know what? As long as I'm thinking of it, while you're at the library, grab some fiction. Preferably something fantasy oriented. Tolkien, Burroughs, Gaiman, Pratchett, whatever. You're going to be writing your own material. You need inspiration.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
I am brand new to this forum, now I see how it helps. I'm not trying to sound childish, but I just can't quite put thought into word which makes this hard for me to discuss.

Putting thought into word is an essential skill for a magician. I recommend you put some effort into working on that. It will serve you well in the long run.

If I seem like I'm complaining, I am sorry. I guess I am just overwhelmed.

Don't be overwhelmed. Take a breath, think about what we're saying, and answer.

I am performing for roughly 250 people in a fairly large setting for around 20 - 30 minutes. No stage.
My act is basically written out. The tricks I plan on performing are Invisible deck, Ambitious card, pressure, other visual, flourishy tricks, and dresscode. I will also talk about magic in general. My style is based around street magic, so I don't have large stage effects. I do need to expand on the list. That is why I would love recommendations.
I'm comfortable with any sort of prop that wouldn't seem too unusual in a normal street scene.

You say your act is basically written out. Then list four things, and "visual flourishy" trick.

What's your theme for these tricks? Do they go together at all? Are the people in the back going to enjoy these tricks?

I've seen the ID done for a huge crowd. It can work, but you have to be prepared for it. See Eric Mead on ForaTV. But for the love of all things holy, don't copy him. The Ambitious Card is very difficult to make play well for an audience of more than 10 people. Cards are difficult to see at a distance, so the impact is vastly reduced. "Visual, flourishy tricks" is a non-description. Dresscode as a closer? How? What's the presentation?

"Talk about magic in general" - Have you written this yet? Are you going to lecture these people? Keep one very important thing in mind - Most people do not care about magic. If you ramble on about it, they will get bored. Ricky Jay can talk about the history of magic and sideshow performance, but you may not be able to pull that off.

Mac King does a show that is largely close up tricks built up for the large crowd. You don't need big boxes to play to a large crowd, you just have to know how to play to a large crowd.

I can't recommend any tricks, because you haven't given me anything to base those recommendations on. How do I know what you can pull off, if you haven't told me how you perform?

What do you consider to be not "too unusual in a normal street scene"? I live in a filthy city. A "normal street scene" for me includes dirt, plastic and glass bottles, the occasional needle, used condoms, palm fronds, fast food wrappers ... Few of those are things I would consider using for magic.
 
Apr 17, 2013
885
4
I keep having to tell myself that street magic is not what it was when I started. To me street magic is busking. It's an outdoor parlor show...

What you need to do first thing Monday morning is head over to the director of the drama club. Talk to him or her about staging, scripting, and how to stage a show. TAKE NOTES! My mentor took me over to the branch campus of The Ohio State university, when I was your age. The hour I spent talking to the people their theater department was one of the greatest thing I ever did for my magic. Make friends with the people in the drama club. Pick up some acting and directing pointers. When you get to college make a bee line for the theater department. Make friends with a budding director or three. Take a script writing class and a stage acting class or two. It will help.

Don't talk about magic in general during your act unless it is a one man show dedicated to showcasing the history of magic or it is showcasing different styles of magic. No one comes to a party for a lecture. Learn some cool stories to weave effects into. If your patter is engaging it will make the effects you do more striking. I'll even give you one to be a nice guy...

I do Cinch by Shaun Robison, but not the normal way. I start by telling the story of D.B. Cooper. As I get to the point with the note I take out the paper that has what was written on the D.B. Cooper note. I keep telling the story as I fold the paper and the effect happens. I hand the bill out as i get towards the end of the story. I take the bill back and vanish it as I talk about how after he jumped, they never saw him or the money again.

It's two effects, transpo and a vanish, an interesting story and it leave a lasting impression.

Another thing that would help greatly is to know the age of the people you will be working in front of.
 

SteveF

Elite Member
Nov 3, 2010
80
6
When performing "street magic" there is no real expectation of quality in the eyes of the spectator because in most cases they didn't wake up that morning expecting to see a performance. But, if people gather for a party or any event where there will be a performer (paid or not paid) then the person who hired this performer and the audience have some expectation of quality. A valid thought for anyone sitting in the audience is "this guy on stage asked to be here or was asked by someone else to be here, therefore must be prepared to be here." If you accept any gig (paid or not paid) and then on the drive home you start thinking about what tricks you're going to buy or start calling friends to get advise on how to do a formal show, then chances are you should have never said yes.

This sort of behavior doesn't translate well to other professions so why is it acceptable in magic? Lets say you wear glasses and schedule an appointment with a licensed doctor to have laser eye surgery. You schedule for 2 months from today. Up to this point he has only done general eye exams and tells people what type of eyeglass prescription they need, but says "sure I can do laser eye surgery, no problem." Then later that night you see he has posted on the doctor forums asking where can I learn how to do laser eye surgery and asks what's the best eye laser to buy and where can he buy it, but defends himself on the forums by saying "....But I have two months to learn!!!...." Would you still go to this doctor?
 
Apr 17, 2013
885
4
When performing "street magic" there is no real expectation of quality in the eyes of the spectator because in most cases they didn't wake up that morning expecting to see a performance. But, if people gather for a party or any event where there will be a performer (paid or not paid) then the person who hired this performer and the audience have some expectation of quality. A valid thought for anyone sitting in the audience is "this guy on stage asked to be here or was asked by someone else to be here, therefore must be prepared to be here." If you accept any gig (paid or not paid) and then on the drive home you start thinking about what tricks you're going to buy or start calling friends to get advise on how to do a formal show, then chances are you should have never said yes.

This sort of behavior doesn't translate well to other professions so why is it acceptable in magic? Lets say you wear glasses and schedule an appointment with a licensed doctor to have laser eye surgery. You schedule for 2 months from today. Up to this point he has only done general eye exams and tells people what type of eyeglass prescription they need, but says "sure I can do laser eye surgery, no problem." Then later that night you see he has posted on the doctor forums asking where can I learn how to do laser eye surgery and asks what's the best eye laser to buy and where can he buy it, but defends himself on the forums by saying "....But I have two months to learn!!!...." Would you still go to this doctor?

It's because the younger magicians no longer learn from a mentor. They no longer learn theory from books. No longer learn how to script and stage a performance. It's all about the hot new download or cool one trick DVD. It's all about the cool looking cards. No longer do they learn rope magic or billiard balls or other classics. They are lost with out their cards.
 

SteveF

Elite Member
Nov 3, 2010
80
6
It's because the younger magicians no longer learn from a mentor. They no longer learn theory from books. No longer learn how to script and stage a performance. It's all about the hot new download or cool one trick DVD. It's all about the cool looking cards. No longer do they learn rope magic or billiard balls or other classics. They are lost with out their cards.

Ture. And sometimes kids on these forums mistake honesty for meanness. When people ask "OMG ummmm, like I got like 50 bucks, what trick should I buy!!!!!111one!1!" or "Sooo yeah, I have a talent show tomorrow... what tricks should I buy." (and there are hundreds of threads that start off like this) they get offended when people say "why did you accept a gig that you're not prepared for." If they don't get the answer they want, the person who responds with honesty, becomes the bad guy.
 
Apr 17, 2013
885
4
It's as I keep saying: There's a difference between what people want ot hear and what they need to hear.

I was lucky to have a mentor in magic who told me what I needed to hear. It's also the reason I have a paid director for my act.
 
Apr 17, 2013
885
4
they get offended when people say "why did you accept a gig that you're not prepared for." If they don't get the answer they want, the person who responds with honesty, becomes the bad guy.


There is a reason my cut off for New Years and Christmas parties is the first of September. The five P's
 
Jan 29, 2011
56
0
The District
This sort of behavior doesn't translate well to other professions so why is it acceptable in magic? Lets say you wear glasses and schedule an appointment with a licensed doctor to have laser eye surgery. You schedule for 2 months from today. Up to this point he has only done general eye exams and tells people what type of eyeglass prescription they need, but says "sure I can do laser eye surgery, no problem." Then later that night you see he has posted on the doctor forums asking where can I learn how to do laser eye surgery and asks what's the best eye laser to buy and where can he buy it, but defends himself on the forums by saying "....But I have two months to learn!!!...." Would you still go to this doctor?
This analogy is good.
However, an experienced magician can buy, learn, and perform a new trick well enough within 2 months. That's under the *assumption* that the *experienced* magician has experience with that type of genre of magic, audience size, type, etc.
Practicing in front of a significant other + mom & dad + BFFs does not translate to being ready to perform professionally for a large audience.


SteveF and Steerpike have pointed out the important bits here.

Two points I'd like to add focus to:

1. An audience of 250 is LARGE.
That's stage magic.
Not close-up magic.
That size takes up a lot of space. My memories of that size space are lecture halls from when I was in college, they held 250-300 people. Unless the performing space is shaped like a lecture hall, like an ancient Greek ampitheatre, a magician is going to need a microphone & large speakers to be heard beyond the first couple of rows.

2. Along the same line of the audience size, 2 quotes show that the magician is not for this venue:
"The tricks I plan on performing are Invisible deck, Ambitious card, pressure, other visual, flourishy tricks, and dresscode."
-and-
"...I've been looking at are Smoke, the Tarantula system, and Elusionist's new Shift Paperclip"
These are close-up and small parlor tricks.
They last 30-90 seconds each.
Even with video cameras linked to large projection screens, the experience for the audience is not going to be positive.


@Echo 1998,
Hopefully by my avoidance of using the word "you" and listing my thoughts as logical points keeps it impersonal so that you'll be able to appreciate the cold logic without feeling attacked. =)
 
Apr 17, 2013
885
4
He has left out a few things like is it a stage gig or a strolling gig. A performer can make a close up effect into something other than a 30 to 90 second effect with the right patter. This is why knowing how to structure your act and know how to write a script is important.

Also I'm a working magician with 20 years under my belt. I would never add something I have only learned in the last two months to a paid gig. Not enough time to break it down, strip out the unnecessary steps and get it to fit into the rest of the act. Two months is not enough time to make it mine.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
This depends on what type of show you are doing. Obviously, if you are doing a strolling set than it's going to be incredibly difficult to record yourself performing. But, if you are doing a big stage set for 250 people (which seems like way too many people for somebody with your experience and for the meager amount of 50 bucks.). I would say to get a video camera and simply record your performance and see if you can send it in to somebody with good experience to look over and correct.

If I were you, I would have turned down the offer for a few major reasons. 1. You really don't have an act. 2. 250 is way too many people for you. 3. The pay is way too little for something like 250 people. 50 dollars for a stage show would be like something for a gig where you are performing for a small group of people (say around 30 or so.)
 
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