Did I make a good choice?

Oct 24, 2008
244
0
Savannah, GA
And why does every one have something against sankey? Is it because not all his tricks are created to "fry magicians" (theory11 people)?

From me, though note that I am no one important you should be concerned with. Really, I'm just talking here. I encourage you to ignore me.

Nah. What's that quote - "Why try to fool magicians when you can fool people that matter?" - something like that? No, I don't like his stuff... well, because I see it and just don't like it. Not even out of curiosity. I see a billion false transfers and ten-second tricks with little substance for the most part. Your mileage my vary, of course, and that's good. This is why taste exists, and why it is so pivotal to the existence of art.

Some of his material is just weak from what I've seen, and what I've seen has led me to not purchase any more Sankey products. Maybe the rest of his stuff is wonderful, I'll never know. I'm not passing judgment there.

Against Sankey himself? Well, I don't know the guy, but I do get tired of hearing him whine about how someone else has ripped him off every other month.

Or is it because he actually is funny and doest act like a super creepy person that worships satan when he performs? Thats what I see aot of the T11 people acting like.

Again, personal preference: don't find him that funny, just annoying. By T11 people, I'm assuming you mean the head guys. Houchin, Bayme, Madison, Asher, Fisher, the Buck twins, Kenner, Bich, etc. Can't really say I see many of them acting like super creepy Satan worshipers. Or maybe you meant people in the media section? You may have me there, I don't look there often.

No, some people give him a bad rap because they might find him annoying, or they might not be impressed with his material, or they may have niches already filled and his material isn't required. Or other reasons. And there's plenty that do like him, don't forget that.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,182
119
31
Houston, TX
I'm mainly talking about houchin, and madison. their stuff is just wierd. houchin even said that with his stigmata, he had a church send people over to make sure he wasnt possessed or something, and if you ask me, that is not something to brag about. and with the pulse stop thing, whoever came up with that, that is just sick. you are basically fake dying. If someone were to come up to me and do that, it would just make me think of my grandpa when he was in the hospital, slowly dying, untill he finally passed on, and I wouldnt freak out when i was shown the trick, theyd be lucky to only be called sick and appauling. Sankeys stuff is actually magic that makes sense, that I enjoy performing, and that others enjoy watching.
 
Oct 24, 2008
244
0
Savannah, GA
I'm mainly talking about houchin, and madison. their stuff is just wierd. houchin even said that with his stigmata, he had a church send people over to make sure he wasnt possessed or something, and if you ask me, that is not something to brag about. and with the pulse stop thing, whoever came up with that, that is just sick. you are basically fake dying. If someone were to come up to me and do that, it would just make me think of my grandpa when he was in the hospital, slowly dying, untill he finally passed on, and I wouldnt freak out when i was shown the trick, theyd be lucky to only be called sick and appauling. Sankeys stuff is actually magic that makes sense, that I enjoy performing, and that others enjoy watching.

I don't think it was his performance, though, that roused the church's ire - I think they simply reacted (with much zeal) to good magic.

What has Madison done that's so weird? Is it the flourishing? The sandwich effects? Lapse is pretty weird, I guess.

Yes, with a pulse stop, you are fake dying. That is exactly the point. Now, your memory that you would attach to it - touchy subject, and before I go further, I give you all due respect. That's a painful memory to have. Not attempting to compete or anything, but my one and only experience with death was holding a family member as they died of severe brain hemorrhage. Totally respect your view there. Different ends of the spectrum, maybe - when reminded of that event, I get sad, but I would not blame some random magician who had no idea of the event, and was only trying to show me a trick.

Have you seen the videos for Control? Performances? He performs for a crowd full of people, who I guarantee you have all experienced death in some fashion. They smile in awe when Houchin's pulse stop. Afterwards, they discuss how if a healthy man's heart can suddenly stop, then come back like that... Wow, this guy says. It makes him want to live his life different. And they all enjoyed themselves.

Moral of the story? Apologies for your loss, but you cannot throw that on a performer. Say you come to me and do a card trick Sankey taught - if I lost all my money gambling away on cards, is it appropriate to lash out at you and call you insensitive for showing me this? Are you trying to make fun of me? That's not cool.

You could also say that such a trick as controlling your own life is supposed to dig deep down within you and make you think of death. How you handle that memory is up to you, and I'm in no way calling you immature or anything for your chosen process. Simply put: this magician means no ill will towards you personally, it's just a trick. It's a weird trick. It's freaky. It's scary. Do you know why? Because people get bored of card tricks. They get bored of coin tricks. They get bored of manipulation acts. This is strange, original, and so utterly devastating that it makes you look at magic differently. It makes you say, "I thought we were going to get some Vegas hocus-pocus rabbit and hat pulling, but... no. Instead, it's a night I'll never forget."

Sankey's stuff makes sense - that's good! Magic should make sense, or at least have a logical flow. "Hello, I am a Magician. Watch what I can do with this Object. Did you like what just Happened?" Madison's stuff all makes sense, too: Angle Zero? A torn corner vanishes then reappears elsewhere. A selected card mysteriously appears between two other cards. A torn card magically mends itself.

And then Houchin: Stigmata? A thought of person's initials eerily appear on your wrist. Sinful? You manage to slam a quarter inside of a soda can. Instead of flossing your nose with thread, you floss your eye.

Which of these effects does not make sense to you? Some are quirky, eerie, and odd, but they are by no means illogical. You understand exactly what is happening in all of them.

Dude, I'm not even trying to slam you or Sankey. I admittedly don't have much experience with what he teaches, and I don't know you. I'm just replying to what you say.
 
Jul 13, 2008
382
0
This post is getting out of control, guys. Lets tone down a little bit and not go dissing people. I think Sankey has done a lot for the magic community and will continue to do so. However, Houchin and Madison are not creepy. I have personally performed Control for people, and their reactions are not horror, but amazement. It all depends on how you perform it. Lets get back to the magic guys, and lets just stop arguing.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,182
119
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Houston, TX
I'm sorry for letting this get out of control. I talked to my grandma, and she said that we will see about sending all the sankey stuff back (except extremely ambitious because jay has an amazing pass :D) and getting me AoA.



Now will you answer me a few more questions?
What are some good routines in AoA?
Is it possible to take some of that material and present it as funny stuff?
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
Hey RK - I wasn't bagging on Sankey, when I was new to magic (and two years is still new - hell, I have been in it a decade and some days still feel new when I see Tamariz do magic - or Williamson entertain) - anyhow, Sankey stuff looks great in his hands - I enjoy his thought provoking book "Beyond Secrets" - but as for his magic - much of his new stuff lacks what I want to deliver with my magic. He is about quick punches and fast effects, I want plot development with punches throughout - or a KO at the end.

As for your last question - again - not trying to pick on you - but it makes you seem lazy. You go from videos to books, and ask about presentations and what effects to do?

Where have the days gone where we made our OWN choices...it sort of makes it clear why you love Sankey...he gives you lines, shows you on video how to do it...all of a sudden - you got to think for yourself...make some of your OWN decisions.

How dare you make me try to take that away from you!! You need that for your own growth.

What ONE magicians says is gold, may not work for you - fool's gold, perhaps. Read through the book, as even the effects you don't do, will teach you something. I promise.

If you do the same with music on a CD - and then ONLY listen to those songs, you are missing ALOT - basically,everything that is not "popular"...and it is in the OVERLOOKED material that you will find something that not only SPEAKS to who you are, but that NOBODY else does - making you...yep, ORIGINAL.

So, will I tip the fact that I personally use 3 of 4 things from the books in my professional material, sure - will I tell you what effects. NOPE. Not to mention - MANY ideas and variations have been based off the CLASSICS - there is ONE effect in the book worth the price of the set! Cowboy up - read em'.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,182
119
31
Houston, TX
I understand what you are saying, but can you atleast answer me this:

Is there quite a bit of stuff on there that does not use cards or coins, but just everyday objects? (that is another thing I love about sankey)
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
There are tricks with lipbalm...tic tacs...tin foil...A LEAF OF A TREE...pins...silly putty...coins...business cards...so nope, no "everyday objects" umm, it is heavily cards...but dude - honestly - don't get the books...they are too good for you, go back to doing all of Sankey's stuff...don't take any risks on learning anything new - afterall, you have been doing magic for 2 years - you know what is good out there...and if they were that good...you would have them already, right? So continue being an everyday magician with everyday objects...the fact that I said that their is ONE trick worth the price of all three books...WHO CARES...the fact that MANY magicians consider these books MUST HAVE books...WHATEVER...Jay Sankey has some new stuff coming out today...tomorrow...I heard Sankey actually created magic - so, you are on the right track. Keep doing Sankey stuff...it is ALL you will ever need.

GOOOOO SANKEY!

PS - What stuff of Sankey's, do you feel is so good that you are having a hard time focusing on something new?

Maybe Harris doesn't offer anything worthwhile to you...and everyone on this thread is full of it...Sankey is the MAN - stick with his stuff. ;)
 
May 18, 2008
807
0
I do not own AoA. I did however read thru it at my magic shop and it is fantastic. This thread was originally not about AoA though. It was about Sankey and whether his stuff was good. The things you ordered of SankeyMagic are all great, before you canceled the order.

You let all these people get into your head and convince you out of ordering all this. What these people don't realize and probbably never will is that some stuff just isn't right for other people. Some stuff isn't logical to some people. But every effect in magic is right for at least one person.

I have been doing magic for 6 years now. This doesn't mean I am an expert, and I find it hard calling myself an intermediate. This means that I find it EXTREMELY egotistical to say, "A begginer? I am in no means a beginner. Been in it for 2 years solid." Most people get into magic for two years then drop out. Just because you have some stuff and have been doing it for a couple years, you are still a biggener.

Now, back to the Sankey material. I own a lot of material. 23 DVDs of those are Sankey, as well as some books. I have never been let down with a purchase from Sankey and don't believe I ever will. I didn't have all the DVDs you stated but I did have some and they are fantastic.

All these people are telling you to get AoA instead because it is a classic, or it is more versatile, or blah, blah, blah. I could care less what is a classic. I think people need to know the history of magic to appreciate what they have, but right now it all comes down to what works for you. What gets good reactions. What is more practical. What gets you paid.

Sankey stuff is always practical and logical, even blockbuster, if you make it that way. You can always justify something by comedy or patter.

So is Paul Harris's stuff. Sankey got a whole lot of inspiration from Paul Harris. Both of their styles are pretty close together. You guys need to stop bieng so closed minded about stuff like this. Most of you think, even without realizing it,

"Well, Paul is talked about a lot. And AoA is the "bible of magic". And it is always praised and apparently nessisary... And Sankey isn't... So Paul pwns! I will tell this guy to get Paul!!11!!"

I am not saying that Sankey is better than Harris. It all depends on what your style is.

I perfer Jay Sankey and will probbably get flamed for this, but I use more of his effects and trust me, I use a lot of his.

I am going to buy AoA sometime soon. But don't let other forumers get inside your head about what is right in magic. As I said, every trick is right for at least one person, and if you order something cause you thought it was cool, stick with it. Remain confident about your purchase cause for all you know, it may be the one piece you end your shows with for years to come while all these other people who don't even own it tell you to stay away.

Whatever you got, Sankey or Harris, it will be good. Niether of them have let me down in the past.
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
This sentence:

All these people are telling you to get AoA instead because it is a classic, or it is more versatile, or blah, blah, blah. I could care less what is a classic. I think people need to know the history of magic to appreciate what they have, but right now it all comes down to what works for you. What gets good reactions. What is more practical. What gets you paid.

makes it REALLY easy to consider you a beginner in magic - it's called a "classic" for a reason - and for a guy that doesn't even own the books...and just skimmed them, you display the common thread ignorance of posting on what you don't know.

Not trying to flame you - but I find it odd that you offer advice on something you don't owned...only skimmed through in the shop...like you could be there reading long enough to get through all 3 volumes?!

I have been disappointed by some of Sankey's stuff - Jam Session's, Revolutionary Coin magic, Ear Plugs (although a good concept, the sponges are too stiff and people can tell the difference between one and two in their hand), Open Sesame looks like a gimmick when performed, and many ideas on his DVD's that are "cute" but not polished pieces of magic...that being said, Jay Sankey has MANY wonderful ideas - and even though I find going through his stuff as overwhelming as trying to watch EVERY clip on Youtube - you do find a gem here and there - obviously, or Jay Sankey wouldn't be a branded name.

The majority of Harris' stuff has been tested for the public by Eric Mead - it has other great contributors in it, like Gregory Wilson and Bill Malone...to name a few - and his work is not overly challenging for the most part - NO effect is out of your grasp...although, all magic takes practice.

This isn't a case of "who is better", but if I wanted to build a strong foundation in magic, while learning some great effects - I find Paul Harris' books to be enlightening and full of strong magic. Sankey can be an enjoyable watch (which is why most magicians like them...they are entertained themselves) - but you are not learning a tonne of magic theory - and you are not always learning strong magic either...as Sankey seems to put out everything he conceives.

Sure - both are enjoyable...but the kid can only choose one right now - and I don't think Sankey's stuff is right for many, as you grow in magic.

Believe this - the reactions you get from your magic in the first two years with the effects you do now - WON'T get you the same reactions in the following two years...at least I hope not, I hope you progress and see the strength and weaknesses of the stuff you are doing.

In conclusion, I am not sure how there is even a comparison - I can name MANY books or videos I would recommend over the overwhelming material put out by Sankey. I have seen him put out videos, with stuff already put out on OTHER videos...like he forgot is has already seen the medium. Again, not saying that Sankey sucks - or stop buying his product...but if I was a kid that wanted to be good at magic...and wanted to learn more than the twirl change...erdnase colour change and the KM move - I would get Harris' books...or ANYTHING else.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,182
119
31
Houston, TX
There are tricks with lipbalm...tic tacs...tin foil...A LEAF OF A TREE...pins...silly putty...coins...business cards...

PS - What stuff of Sankey's, do you feel is so good that you are having a hard time focusing on something new?

Maybe Harris doesn't offer anything worthwhile to you...and everyone on this thread is full of it...Sankey is the MAN - stick with his stuff. ;)

See thats all I wanted to know. I wasnt trying to be rude its just everything that I see in videos of his stuff is cards which is fine, but That is why I like sankey because he has alot of stuff with ordinary objects, and that is what I like
 
May 18, 2008
807
0
This sentence:

All these people are telling you to get AoA instead because it is a classic, or it is more versatile, or blah, blah, blah. I could care less what is a classic. I think people need to know the history of magic to appreciate what they have, but right now it all comes down to what works for you. What gets good reactions. What is more practical. What gets you paid.

makes it REALLY easy to consider you a beginner in magic - it's called a "classic" for a reason - and for a guy that doesn't even own the books...and just skimmed them, you display the common thread ignorance of posting on what you don't know.

Not trying to flame you - but I find it odd that you offer advice on something you don't owned...only skimmed through in the shop...like you could be there reading long enough to get through all 3 volumes?!

I have been disappointed by some of Sankey's stuff - Jam Session's, Revolutionary Coin magic, Ear Plugs (although a good concept, the sponges are too stiff and people can tell the difference between one and two in their hand), Open Sesame looks like a gimmick when performed, and many ideas on his DVD's that are "cute" but not polished pieces of magic...that being said, Jay Sankey has MANY wonderful ideas - and even though I find going through his stuff as overwhelming as trying to watch EVERY clip on Youtube - you do find a gem here and there - obviously, or Jay Sankey wouldn't be a branded name.

The majority of Harris' stuff has been tested for the public by Eric Mead - it has other great contributors in it, like Gregory Wilson and Bill Malone...to name a few - and his work is not overly challenging for the most part - NO effect is out of your grasp...although, all magic takes practice.

This isn't a case of "who is better", but if I wanted to build a strong foundation in magic, while learning some great effects - I find Paul Harris' books to be enlightening and full of strong magic. Sankey can be an enjoyable watch (which is why most magicians like them...they are entertained themselves) - but you are not learning a tonne of magic theory - and you are not always learning strong magic either...as Sankey seems to put out everything he conceives.

Sure - both are enjoyable...but the kid can only choose one right now - and I don't think Sankey's stuff is right for many, as you grow in magic.

Believe this - the reactions you get from your magic in the first two years with the effects you do now - WON'T get you the same reactions in the following two years...at least I hope not, I hope you progress and see the strength and weaknesses of the stuff you are doing.

In conclusion, I am not sure how there is even a comparison - I can name MANY books or videos I would recommend over the overwhelming material put out by Sankey. I have seen him put out videos, with stuff already put out on OTHER videos...like he forgot is has already seen the medium. Again, not saying that Sankey sucks - or stop buying his product...but if I was a kid that wanted to be good at magic...and wanted to learn more than the twirl change...erdnase colour change and the KM move - I would get Harris' books...or ANYTHING else.


This is exactly my point. All tricks are different for everyone. You have to expiriment. For all this guy knows, he HATES Paul Harris's style and LOVES Kevin Parkers! (Ok, that was a total joke.)

But you get what I mean. Some people like different stuff and it fits them. Paul Harris's books are great, but people, especially people who don't have style down yet (been in it for 2 years) need to expiriment with all types of magic.

Paul's books are great, as are Sankey's DVDs. Buy them both when you have the money. Just buy whichever you think is more helpful first.
 

Michael Kras

{dg} poet laureate / theory11
Sep 12, 2007
1,268
3
Canada
www.magicanada.myfastforum.org
It's no secret that I'm a hardcore Sankey fan, Yes, I have disliked some of his releases but almost everything of his I own is gold.

That being said, I now speak to the thread starter: You really shouldn't have listened to anybody but yourself. You obviously made these selections from Sankey's website because you wanted them. Owning them and not a set of Art of Astonishment will not turn you into the most hated man in magic. In the future, I recommend you just go with whatever you originally wanted. You could have easily picked up AoA some other time, there's no rush!

As a side note, Sankey's Monster Sale is so EXCITINGLY GOOD! I've only ordered a few things so far: About Face, Hemispheres, and The Disappearance. All look great.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,182
119
31
Houston, TX
I never cancelled the sankey order, I was only going to send it back when we got it. My grandma said she didnt want to deal with that, so she is just going to give me the sankey stuff for christmas, and is going to buy me AoA for my birthday on dec. 15.

The only problem now is that I dont know where to start. Can someone give me some advice on this? Here is everything I am getting:

Zero Gravity
Dough
Bigger Finish
Revolutionary Card Magic
The Disapearance
Extremely Ambitious (ambitious card dvd)
22 Blows to The Head
Hemispheres
and AoA

I though of starting with Zero Gravity, Dough, Bigger Finish, and The Disapearance as they are all single tricks, and I thought I would watch 22 Blows last as I heard a few bad things about it. Then I will read AoA from book 1-3, and I can rad it anytime I'm in the car, or have free time in school.
 
Nov 18, 2008
1,604
0
CA
She's getting you AOA too?! Damn you've got a nice gma....but yeah watch the single trick stuff first, then watch the longer DVD's. Save AOA for later so you can spend the time to really read it.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,182
119
31
Houston, TX
She's getting you AOA too?! Damn you've got a nice gma....but yeah watch the single trick stuff first, then watch the longer DVD's. Save AOA for later so you can spend the time to really read it.

Yeah I know, I didnt expect it either. But, I love my grandma!! haha. But its just overwelming. Not to mention the fact that I will be getting some magic stuff from my dad for x-mas (prolly just Flow, and amazing guy) I'm on the verge of sending all the non single trick sankey stuff back, and just keeping the money (my grandma said she wont get mad if I do that), so I can focus more on AoA
 
Nov 18, 2008
1,604
0
CA
Yeah I know, I didnt expect it either. But, I love my grandma!! haha. But its just overwelming. Not to mention the fact that I will be getting some magic stuff from my dad for x-mas (prolly just Flow, and amazing guy) I'm on the verge of sending all the non single trick sankey stuff back, and just keeping the money (my grandma said she wont get mad if I do that), so I can focus more on AoA

Lol. Yeah you should actually strongly consider sending the sankey stuff back because that is a lot of stuff to handle all at once. Also when you have that much stuff it is harder to focus on each thing individualy. And out of everything that you ordered AOA is definetly the most important. You can always get the sankey stuff later...
 
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