Help with Choosing a Good Control to Learn

Discussion in 'Product Questions and Reviews' started by SuperLee, Mar 24, 2011.

  1. Hey guys, I've been trying to find a good control of a card to the top or bottom and here are the ones that I think I like the best..

    Svengali Control
    Orbit Control
    Mirror Force
    AP Spread Control
    Miller Cascade Control

    If you can help me, can you list the order of preference for you based on the controls above that you know/use or just list your favorite.

    For instance... 1) ____ 2) ____ 3)____

    I also would like to know if any of these are really difficult because I don't want to buy something that I can't do even after practicing. I know it's handy to know a bunch of controls for each performance/circumstance, but I rather build my way up to that point rather than get a bunch at once. Most of the controls listed above are from DanandDave's site and the Mirror Force is located at Ellusionist by Patrick Kun, if you need to view the forces. So if you guys can help me out then great, if not that's fine.. I already saw the other post titled "Best Control" and would like to single out what you guys answered as upon watching the trailers for these, they all look astonishing. Thanks!
  2. 1. Orbit Control. One of the best controls to the top.
    2. Svengali Control. It is the multiple shift I use.
    2. Miller Cascade Control. Also one of the best.
    4. AP Spread. Don't have it, but looks good to me.
    5. TOP. Figured it out. The biggest disadvantage for me is the fact that you have to see the selection.

    I put Svengali and Miller at 2 because they are each good for different situations(Svengali being primarily a multi shift and Miller Cascade baddish angles). I left off Mirror because I don't know enough about it to give my opinion. Looks pretty good, though.
  3. I know this technically isn't on your list but the Convincing Control (Ed Marlo) is the best control out there. You can go with the original or any of the variations; DMB spread control and Tony Chang's variation, A.P. spread control, Earnest Earick's convincing control (page 83 -By Forces Unseen by Stephen Minch) or you can check out any of these,745,463,543,544 They will all treat you well. IMO the convincing control is the best control to the top or bottom.
  4. The ones I use the most

    Cull (it is so versatile one care or multiple if I want to control the selection to the top I use the stream line control.)
    Classic Pass with a slight shift of your body it is invisible.
    Dribble pass is a little more angle friendly.
    Over hand shuffle control and Riffle shuffle control are nice if you are selling the idea is lost.
  5. The most important question is, what are you planning to use it for? There are so many good controls, it's just a matter of choosing one that suits your preferences... I wouldn't touch most if any of your favourite controls with a ten foot pole because they don't suit my needs.
  6. What ever happened to the double undercut or just a basic shuffle control? :)
  7. It died when magicians started thinking like magicians.
  8. Okay for beginners but after a while you will want contols that don't appear as if you manipulate the deck after the card is "lost"

    For that reason to the OP I say:
    Classic Pass
    Convincing Control
    Diagonal Palm Shift
    Side Steal
    Nowhere Pass
    Illusion Control
    Losing Control
    Clip Shift(though I hate it as a "change")
  9. I have finally encountered a quote worth putting in my signature.

    And for clarity's sake regarding the "Orbit Control". Please. It's not even close to Chris Brown's. It was well known even in Erdnase's time. As proof:

    (taken straight from the section on the Diagonal Palm Shift):

    The plan of having one or several selected cards inserted in the deck, then forcing them through slightly diagonally, and twisting them out to the top or bottom, is well known to most conjurers, and by some is treated as a blind shuffle.

    (I can't tell you how annoyed I get to see people refer to it as the "Orbit Control")


    Eostresh is referring to passive and active controls. Some of the most convincing ones I've seen were active ones with a good reason to do it. Sure, the Cascade Control may be nearly angle-proof (and is if you perform for a real audience, not your webcam), but just because there's motivation for airing out the cards doesn't mean it's the right time.

    But I hate the double undercut. With a passion. Other active controls? I kind of like them.
  10. #10 ChrisWiens, Mar 29, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2011
    I second that. There´s no best control. It totally depends on the situation you´re using it in. I would always choose a control by a trick I do. I never use one control for everything.
    Which tricks do you perform regulary ?
    What are the most appropriate controls in the context of your tricks ?

    Despite that, I would learn the cull (although it´s a really tough control, and my cull is not nearly as good as I would like it to be).As Dicer said it`s so versatile and other controls make use of it, too (Convincing control just to name one).
  11. I absolutely love the Miller Cascade Control. I practice it a lot because it is not easy to get natural but it is worth it.
  12. Thanks for the compliment, sabor!

    I feel like I should add to my first post, which others have agreed with.

    I wouldn't touch, for example, the Miller Cascade Control because I perform as a mentalist, and therefore I make sure to eliminate fancy card movements from my performances. That's one reason - it's not congruent with my performing persona, especially for strangers. I'm a little more lax with that rule when it comes to my friends.

    But to go further, different controls are useful at different times. For example, have you heard of the distortion pass? It's one of my favourite controls. It's a pass that's fairly angle sensitive, but used in the right place, it just looks beautiful. The moment when the cards coalesce just looks amazing. Anyway, the point is that that the distortion pass is used specifically for moving a small amount of cards from the bottom of the deck to the top. It's a pass that transposes the two halves of the deck - but it's most deceptive with a small amount of cards at the bottom, so that's how I use it. I would not use this pass any other way because that is its "sweet spot" where no other sleight can compare. I use that sleight in one trick that I do.

    Oh, and I want to briefly refute esotresh's idea that controls should look like you don't manipulate the deck. I think that's the wrong way to think about it. Or at least, it's not the only way to think about it. I would submit that it's perfectly natural to shuffle a deck after placing a card back in the deck. It's also perfectly natural to cut the deck. I think that they are actions that laymen associate with placing cards beyond control, because that is the very function of shuffling and cutting cards in society. It's only a magician that thinks about touching the deck as "manipulation". I think that laymen think of shuffling the deck as exactly that - a "shuffle".
  13. if you perform for laymen , use the jog shuffle,breather crimp and the culling for multiple selections routines, look all the pros like Michael Vincent or Paul Gordon, they use those controls
  14. The crimp is a much underrated control, although some of the most spectacular effects I´ve ever seen utilize the crimp.
  15. 1) Diagonal Palm shift, 2) Cherry Control, 3) Classic pass.
    I think it depends though, Lee asher's loosing control can be ok for first performances but I also use the control taught in Que Raro. Some controls like the double undercut died after one use.
  16. absolutely , a simple crimp is very effective, Guy Hollingworth and Michael Vincent does use it
  17. Michael`s DVD set 'The Classic Magic of Michael Vincent' is a goldmine. I always find something new to learn. Not the easiest stuff around (the one-handed bottom deal is really really hard for me, although he explains it in detail), but definitely something to grow with. Maybe the best DVD set I own.

    Sorry for the OT.
  18. Fair point. Didn't mean to come off sounding like an extremist on that issue. There are many ways to skin a cat. I LOVE gambling demos. I love card flourishing as well. Most people who know me know these to things about me. Therefore, when I am performing more traditional forms of card magic, an ACR, CTW, card transpositions, ect. I have gravitated towards "Passive" controls since the moment I start doing anything people start watching close. With passive controls I can get the control done either before focus is drawn to the deck, or I can relax, take the heat off, and perform the control on the off beat. I only do about 3 or 4 mentalism effects with cards and in those cases they are "spectator shuffles/cuts" type effects. Again, I pay the price for my guilty pleasures...Gambling, and Flourishing. If you don't share those guilty pleasure, or you are performing for people who don't know you or your style, then by all means....shuffle and cut to your hearts content!
  19. I have fooled magicians with this one!
  20. #20 ChrisWiens, Apr 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2011
    I think LC works better for magicians than laymen. Don´t know, but laymen seem to pay more attention to the 'discrepancy' of the control than magicians.

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