How spectators perceive a routine/effect

[bugboy]

Although I don't have a ton of performance experience under my belt as of now, I have noticed something
pretty interesting about the way some spectators will perceive a trick that you do.

For example, my ACR is always my go-to card routine. I often will ask my spectators, after having showed them
a bunch of other things, what they're favorite thing was, and I've gotten the response: "The one where it pops
up to the top and I see it!" (In reference to the Braue Pop-Up, which always closes my ACR). It's funny to me, since
they seem to have forgotten the entire routine prior to the Pop-Up and only seem to remember the Pop-Up. What I see as my "routine" of the card continuously rising to the top, they view as the trick where the card pops up to the top, as in the last move.

Similarly, I had just recently debuted my 4 Coins Across routine to my girlfriend..after having performed the entire routine for her, I asked her the same question, to which she replied: "The part where you actually put the coin in my hand!" Again, it's interesting to me how spectators will come away only remembering/focusing on one aspect of an effect.

Any thoughts?

-A.L

 

[D ICE R]

There is an interesting idea within the way people remember things called primary and recentcy. Basically it means people can only remember the first and last few things they are shown. So for good magic the method is usually found between two seemingly important events.

Considering your examples both the strongest parts are your closers and for good reason. They are the strongest parts of the routine where the natural conflict is the strongest. Magic as a whole has a natural challenge build everyone knows that on some level there is a method at work. This is espically true with the two routines you mentioned as essentially you are doing the same thing over and over again. By adding extra layers the effect seemingly making the effect more impossible, the overall impact is strengthened.

It takes a good performer to elimate the before mentioned challenge within magic routines but it is possible.

 

[RealityOne]

Three thoughts. First, they may be seeing each routine as a series of tricks -- that is each phase is a separate trick. So the question they are answering is which phase of the routine is their favorite.

Second, it seems that your presentation is merely explaining what is happening to the props. When I ask people what they liked the best, I usually get a description that mixes what happens to the props and what my patter is about. That is if they liked Election, their response is "I liked the one where you talked about couples needing to be the same but different and then we picked the same card but the backs were different." The spectators associate routines with the patter.

Third, the fact that people only remember parts of an effect allows us to manipulate what they remember to make the effect when it is retold seem even stronger.

 

[bugboy]

@ RealityOne-- It makes sense when you say that spectators will associate patter with an effect. It seems only natural to do so.

However, I don't tend to have any crazy patter or storyline behind any of my effects. The extent of mine is with my ACR, where I will tell my spectator that they have a special connection with there card, and that there signature on it allows it to do amazing things. I don't like to sound corny with any kind of storyline, but I sometimes find that the line between corny and entertaining/believable is often fuzzy. For me, I've found that it's dependent on the audience I'm performing for.

 

[RealityOne]

However, I don't tend to have any crazy patter or storyline behind any of my effects. The extent of mine is with my ACR, where I will tell my spectator that they have a special connection with there card, and that there signature on it allows it to do amazing things. I don't like to sound corny with any kind of storyline, but I sometimes find that the line between corny and entertaining/believable is often fuzzy. For me, I've found that it's dependent on the audience I'm performing for.

Good patter isn't a crazy story or a bunch of corny lines. In fact, I think that bad stories and corny lines are bad patter. But let's start at the beginning.

"Patter" is best defined as what you say when you present an effect. No matter what, even if you just say "look" you have patter. So the question becomes how does what you say affect your audience. Your patter should enhance the presentation of the effect.

Now you ACR patter doesn't really add anything to the effect. Nobody in the audience will believe that they have a special connection with their card (which they just met moments before) and that their signature allows the card to do anything amazing. In my opinion, that presentation only weakens your magic because it hurts your credibility.

I think that for patter to be good, it has to be able to stand on its own. That is, it should be something that you could talk about if you weren't performing the effect. Think about most conversations with your friends -- you usually are telling stories of what happened to you. Did you ever tell someone about something you read or saw? Good patter should be like those conversations.

The second thing that patter needs is to make sense in the context of what you are doing. The patter has to relate to the effect in some way. An ACR has different parts to it - selecting the card, signing the card, having the card come to the top repeated times with the last time being something you can visually see. There are lots of meanings you can assign to those parts.

Just off the top of my head:

In life, one of the most important choices we make is choosing our friends. I want you to choose a card and remember it -- because we remember our friends. Put the card back in the deck. Friendship is a two way street. It is difficult to be friends with a person unless they feel the same way as you do. [Turn over top card showing it is the remembered card]. Can you write the name of one of your friends on the card. Put the card back in the deck. One of the things about friends is that we can always pick them out in a crowd -- in fact they often seek us out and find us. [Turn over top card showing signed card and reinsert in deck]. The true test of a friend is when things in life get a little mixed up [give deck a shuffle]. A true friend is there when we reach out for them. [Turn over top card showing signed card, bend card and reinsert in deck]. When someone is a really good friend, they will pop into your life when you least expect it. [Do Braue pop up move].

That is a little serious and may not be your style. But how about a presentation about little brothers who always show up at the worst time or even a best friend that keeps interrupting you every time you try to be alone with a girl. Or how about advice your parents give you that you don't seem to be listening to (e.g. burying in the deck) but that comes to the top of your mind when you need it.

 

[Chrisfecto]

First I would ask you what do you expect them to say? I think that no matter what people will view your routine as separate tricks even if they see that they're similar.

Second, to go off what RealityOne has said I know that your patter is what will change this. I pay really close attention to how people describe my effects. One of my biggest pet peeves was "do the trick where the card keeps coming to the top." I took it upon myself to really make them describe the trick differently. I start out with a conversation, steering the topic to where I want to, then interject with my ACR:

"Did you ever realize you don't realize what you'd miss from home until you actually miss it?"
That hooks people and starts a conversation about where they are from and most people can relate to that statement.

"I know, for me, when i left home for school I never would have thought I'd miss this pizza place in town. It's really greasy horrible pizza but I miss going there and seeing everyone. Did you have a place like that?"
This connects them with me and shows who I am.

Once they tell me their pizza place back home, I introduce the deck. "the top of the deck is (their pizza place) and they deliver on 52 streets in (their home town)*as i dribble the cards* If you could reach in and choose your pizza delivery guy and sign his name on the front"
I then go into my normal ACR but with some really fun lines, like how he gets lost. I also repeat their home town and pizza place a few times. Later on when they go to describe my ACR every single person says something like "do the pizza guy trick!" and THAT was exactly what I wanted because I feel something that small really differentiates you.

 

[Randy]

I have to ask, how many phases did your ACR have though? if it had three and you took your time with each phase, then there is a good chance that they would remember each phase but would still mention the ending. Humans are just like that, not just with magic. Most people always talk about the end of a movie, the end of a book, etc etc.

As for RealityOne's idea, I think there actually IS a way to make it seem a bit more believable for the card to come to the top via their signature. But then my idea removes the idea of having them sign the card and goes in a different path BEFORE the ACR even begins. I've had the idea of doing a thought of card effect BEFORE doing the ACR and then using that same card for the ACR and playing off the idea that thoughts often have the ability to effect reality. etc etc. Now, this removes a few things with the ACR. You no longer have to have them sign the card for "proof", they end up having a more personal connection (make sure when you get them to think of the card you give them a few seconds to actually think of one and then before the thought of card reveal, find out WHY they thought about it.). Then after that you just use the same card and go on with my idea. I don't know if this would actually work, but It might be something to play around with.

 

[TeeDee]

I don't know if I've missed something here, but what's wrong with your spectators predominantly recalling of the climax of your trick? Surely the climax is supposed to be the strong moment of magic that leaves an impression on them. If each separate moment of magic in your routine was as memorable as the last one, then where's the build of tension, where's the drama?

And RealityOne, I agree with you when you say, "for patter to be good, it has to be able to stand on its own." I know that friendship patter was just off the top of your head, but really, does that kind of thing "stand on its own" in your opinion? I think it's entirely unnatural to approach a group of strangers and start declaiming about the nature of friendship. It's just a bizarre thing to do. And somewhat condescending. Why do we think anyone cares about our trite, fortune cookie philosophy? This, to my mind, holds true for any of that style of patter that uses the movements of cards or coins as an allegory. The problem is always that the narrative is subject to your routine, meaning that nothing of true value can be expressed.

In my opinion, Bugboy's patter is absolutely fine for an ACR, providing you deliver the idea of the signature allowing the card to do "amazing things" as a joke. Clearly it's not believable, but by insisting on that explanation through the routine, it gives the audience permission to be impressed by your sleight-of-hand (which they know is the true method). As the magician is modestly disguising their skill behind a facade of a magic signature-powered card, the audience don't feel as though they are being challenged and are therefore happy to give their praise willingly.

 

[RealityOne]

And RealityOne, I agree with you when you say, "for patter to be good, it has to be able to stand on its own." I know that friendship patter was just off the top of your head, but really, does that kind of thing "stand on its own" in your opinion?

Actually, it does stand on its own. You could pontificate about what friendship means to you without a deck of cards. Is my script a little trite, superficial and sounds like a Halmark card -- probably, but as you said it was off the top of my head. The point was to demonstrate a way of making the patter link to what is happening in the effect. Each concept in the effect ties to the patter.

I think it's entirely unnatural to approach a group of strangers and start declaiming about the nature of friendship. It's just a bizarre thing to do. And somewhat condescending. Why do we think anyone cares about our trite, fortune cookie philosophy?

I usually don't approach a group of strangers and perform. I either perform for an audience that has come to see me perform or for family and friends. That being said, I don't think performing magic while talking about something meaningful is a bizarre thing to do. And by meaningful, I don't mean some sort of deep thoughts but just talking about something important. I'll acknowledge that the friendship patter might not be the best example of having meaning but again, it was to illustrate a concept.

This, to my mind, holds true for any of that style of patter that uses the movements of cards or coins as an allegory. The problem is always that the narrative is subject to your routine, meaning that nothing of true value can be expressed.

I will agree that it is difficult to pull off a card or coin effect with any meaning or allegory... but it can be done. Otherwise we are merely performing effects to show the spectator what we can do with our cards and our coins. The presentation becomes what Eugene Burger calls "the adventures of the props in the magician's hands."

I think it might just come down to a difference in philosopy. I don't think magic is about having the audience "be impressed by your sleight of hand (which they know is the true method)." I think magic is about providing the audience an experience of astonishment and wonder placed in a context the makes them no longer care if there is a method.

 

[TeeDee]

I think it might just come down to a difference in philosopy. I don't think magic is about having the audience "be impressed by your sleight of hand (which they know is the true method)." I think magic is about providing the audience an experience of astonishment and wonder placed in a context the makes them no longer care if there is a method.

I absolutely agree with you on this point. The difference between our approaches is, I think, that I believe that tricks should be used as an example of a wider truth, whereas you think they should be a metaphor for this wider truth. So, when Derren Brown introduces a trick with, "It's very easy to get an idea into someone's head...", or Darwin Ortiz says, "Let me show you why you should never play cards with strangers...", they're signposting a demonstration of a concept. The techniques and props they are about to use represent this concept in microcosm. This is what I mean by using our tricks as an example of a wider truth. The experience of the audience is having participated in an astounding demonstration of an astonishing idea. The method is immaterial, as, even if it was "just a trick", the truth being represented is wonderful in itself.

 

[RealityOne]

I absolutely agree with you on this point. The difference between our approaches is, I think, that I believe that tricks should be used as an example of a wider truth, whereas you think they should be a metaphor for this wider truth.

To be clear, I think a metaphor or symbolic is only one of many possible approaches. I agree that your approach is equally valid. As long as the the presentation isn't "look at what I can do with cards" but instead goes to something "wider" that answers the question of why the audience should be interested, I'm good with it.

 

[bugboy]

I feel as if it is all based upon your own philosophy behind performance.

I do like the idea of incorporating a story into my ACR, like RealityOne had mentioned. Doing this would be applicable to this card routine..however, I feel that some effects really don't require/are enhanced by a story-type of patter. For example, take the biddle trick (which I had just learned recently): would a storyline really be appropriate for such a trick? To me, it is most definitely important to have patter that punctuates the routine throughout, but some interesting, metaphorical story strikes me as silly.

The extent of my "interesting" patter for biddle would be something like this when I get to the point of holding the five cards alone: "Now what would be really impressive is if I could successfully guess, with one chance, which of the five cards here is your card. But I can't do that..you know why? Because, first off, I don't possess any magical powers, nor do I practice any type of sorcery. But I can do something a little more interesting.." after having said that, I then would proceed to snap the five cards and slowly reveal that one has vanished.

I like this idea of kind of downplaying my abilities as a magician by saying that I can't do something, and then proceed to do something that it more extraordinary.

What I'm really trying to say is that certain effects may be better complimented with some back-story, whereas others, like the biddle trick, may be suited just fine by themselves and with a little bit of interesting patter thrown in.

Really appreciate the varied feedback, though!

 

[KeoSilver]

There is an interesting idea within the way people remember things called primary and recentcy. Basically it means people can only remember the first and last few things they are shown. So for good magic the method is usually found between two seemingly important events.

Considering your examples both the strongest parts are your closers and for good reason. They are the strongest parts of the routine where the natural conflict is the strongest. Magic as a whole has a natural challenge build everyone knows that on some level there is a method at work. This is espically true with the two routines you mentioned as essentially you are doing the same thing over and over again. By adding extra layers the effect seemingly making the effect more impossible, the overall impact is strengthened.

It takes a good performer to elimate the before mentioned challenge within magic routines but it is possible.

Thank you for more research ideas. I've never really gave any thought into memory, could be worth exploring deeper to help improve presentations.