theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards

How to enhance Crush ungimmicked version?

LuseifHo

LuseifHo

May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
Hey purchasers of Crush,
As I live in Hong Kong, rarely do I get to use the gimmicked version of crush without looking weird.
I was wondering if there was anyway in which I could make the effect of the ungimmicked version stronger. Right now, the crushing isn't as amazing and all you get is a "oh thats cool" with plastic bottles. As I can only perform the effect with cans with japanese drinks due to requirements, I think that would look a tad odd. The effect works great with cans, but sadly the right kinds just arent that common.
Is there anyway for the effect to be stronger when using plastic bottles?

Thanks
 
How are you presenting the routine, LuseifHo?

I don't own Crush, so I'm afraid I can't help you with the mechanics of the thing. But it seems to me, that the effect is that somehow, you are able to crush a physical object with something other than physical force.

This is a pretty amazing ability!

What person would not be blown away, for example, if Master Yoda from Star Wars was actually a real person, and could lift aircraft using the power of his mind? Yoda could certainly crush something with the Force, and it's a pretty freaking amazing thing. I remember how I felt when I finally saw Yoda in a lightsaber fight against Dooku in Episode II.

The point is, that the effect from a layman's perspective should be pretty amazing by nature... Perhaps part of it may be that you should focus on what is happening, rather than what it is happening to... Focus on the fact that you're crushing a physical object - as opposed to the fact that you're crushing a plastic bottle.
 
Nah
thats not the problem.
In essence, the ungimmicked version crushes less than the gimmicked one... as most of these tricks go. The gimmicked version has some requirements which would come as socially awkward where I live.
The gimmicked version allows a bottle to crush to almost flat, while the ungimmicked just concaves it on itself a bit. I was wondering if there was anywa in terms of method which would cause both to be the same.
Even in the DVD, the spectator Eric performs for says "thats pretty awesome" with a contented face.
Though Eric does give a few tips on what ways it would crush stronger without the gimmick, what he teaches is purely situational rather than something you can do everytime.
Thanks for trying anyway praetoritevong's

-Luseif
 
LuseifHo said:
Nah
thats not the problem.
In essence, the ungimmicked version crushes less than the gimmicked one... as most of these tricks go. The gimmicked version has some requirements which would come as socially awkward where I live.
The gimmicked version allows a bottle to crush to almost flat, while the ungimmicked just concaves it on itself a bit. I was wondering if there was anywa in terms of method which would cause both to be the same.
Even in the DVD, the spectator Eric performs for says "thats pretty awesome" with a contented face.
Though Eric does give a few tips on what ways it would crush stronger without the gimmick, what he teaches is purely situational rather than something you can do everytime.
Thanks for trying anyway praetoritevong's

-Luseif
Click to expand...

Hey Luseif,

No problem, thanks for clearing that up.

In light of what you've told me though, can I make another suggestion?

I understand that you're looking for a method to physically crush the bottle more without using the gimmick, and admittedly I can't help you with that. However, I would point out that the reason you want to crush it more is to enhance the reaction to the effect, right? Because obviously a completely crushed can is more impressive.

So I just wanted to offer you this thought... I'm sure you've heard of Uri Geller, who famously has claimed to be psychic. He has been challenged and caught many times, but that's not the point.

Uri has a devoted following of those who believe in his psychic powers.

If you look at what he does though, very often, what you'll find is this: Uri only bends his spoons and keys very slightly!

Compare to (I know this is something of an unfair comparison, to those in the know, but bear with me) Morgan Strebler's routine, Liquid Metal. In it, he bends a fork about 15 different ways until you have basically a Frankensteinian fork bent in every way possible.

Uri Geller puts one, often small, bend, in his forks.

The point I'm making here is this. I appreciate that what you're looking for is an increased crushing action.

I don't know if there is an answer, or if anyone else has one - but I hope you find what you're looking for.

Either way, though, a greater crush does not necessarily mean a stronger effect on your spectator - and if you're looking for ways to improve the effect - regardless of whether you find what you're looking for or not - what I've suggested is another way to greatly strengthen the effect - again, whether or not you manage to find what you're looking for or not, because I know that in the end you just want the effect to be as strong as possible.

Again - hope you find what you're looking for, and sorry I couldn't help more precisely. :)
 
Touche
I do believe that there are many other ways to maximize reaction whether through presentation or rapport, or any thing other than method, but I just wanted to get all the technical changes out of the ways so I can then focus on the way I perform.
Once again, thank you very much.

-Luseif
 
Well i shall give you my views that i have been experimenting with, however i have not performed it yet.

The way i look at the gimmicked and ungimmicked versions is this; they are completely different tricks, they are not 'more of a crush' and 'less of a crush'.

I think thats the problem people have been having with crush, they see the ungimmicked version as less powerful, when, in fact i think it is quite the opposite.

Two things i have found that improve the trick in just my eyes, (let alone the spectators) are firstly, how you decide to present it. Don't just say 'hey im going to crush this bottle', like Prae said before me, incorporate something to the effect of 'I have psychic powers - watch...'. Now i an understand that you may find this a bit too elaborate, but i came up with a neat little routine that i will happily share with you here, and anyone else who reads this.

You start by asking the spectators if they have seen the film "the men who stare at goats" (i recommend you see the film before using it as a reference in your performance), if they say no then explain that it is about a true story where the American army were trainign 'psychic spies', and how they used their minds to help them escape/fight etc. (If they say they have seen it, then skip the part i just mentioned.) Then describe one scene in particular, where George Clooney's character is sat staring at a goat, and it drops dead, after he has 'stopped its heart with his mind'. Explain that although you do not have the power to do that, you have been practicing manipulating things with just your mind, and say you will attempt to do so with a bottle of water (casually producing the bottle), empty the contents and tell them to watch closely, i found that it is more presentable if you place the bottle on the ground or a table, and move your hands in and out like Eric does on the DVD. Try and sync your hand movements with the crush, (it becomes easier after practice) and it becomes so unbelievable that people forget about anything that could cause the effect. (By the way, if you don't like pretending you have psychic powers, just say you will recreate the scene with the goat, but with a bottle instead.)

I thought that it adds a kind of relateability to the trick, as people know who george clooney is and even if they havent seen the film they might have seen the trailer, which has a clip from that scene on it. It helps them imagine the bottle as something completely different, and by the time it has seriously crushed, their minds are blown.

Thats my views on enhancing the performance, now for my views on enhancing the mechanics of the effect (i wont expose anything.)

Experiment with all the water bottles that you can find in your supermarkets or shops/vending machines etc, the most common ones. Experiment with timing and size and shape of the bottles and find a correlation that works suitably with the more common bottles (those of you who have the effect will understand me.) Green bottles or coloured bottles are usually more effective too (same again, you will know what i am referring to if you have it.

Once you have a good bottle, make sure you nail the factors that increase/decrease the crush until you can almost expect the same crush everytime. Then, if you want to perform it, just go buy the bottle you have experimented with, and go set it up (again, you will know what i am talking about if you have the trick, and where you should go to set it up), this way you can baffle even people you are hanging out with, because they saw you buy the bottle, and will have no idea how you managed it.

Hope all of that helps, it took me quite a while to come up with all of that when i was first experimenting with crush, but it allows for the ungimmicked method to be even more powerful than the gimmicked one, in my opinion.

Good luck!

EDIT: It is also very easy to get an incredibly powerful crush with the ungimmicked version, even more powerful than the gimmicked version because it is slower. Just spend time finding the right bottle and experimenting with timing and you shall achieve it perfectly every time.
 
Thanks Sk8r,
I already get all the presentation bits. I just wanted to get the technical bits out of the way. Could you elaborate a bit more on how the gimmicked and un gimmicked are in fact opposites? That kind of confuses me.
 
I think what he is saying is that the ungimmicked version is better just cause its as close to real magic as you can get. The power of nature.

I have crush and never use the gimmicked version. i have all the help you need bud pm me so we can talk.
 
Magicman explained all i tried to in one sentence so yeah, what he said haha!

He's right, the ungimmicked version is just so natural and you really can't screw it up even if you tried. Thats why the effect of the trick is up to the level of performance, not the actual crush that happens. You could build up to the crush amazingly, do a brilliant performance, and only dent the bottle a tiny bit, and it would still have the same effect as the gimmicked version.

But like i said, you will get more of a crush from different bottles on the ungimmicked version, just try loads of them and variate the timing (ive sent you a pm on this bit.

Good luck.
 
LuseifHo said:
Hey purchasers of Crush,
As I live in Hong Kong, rarely do I get to use the gimmicked version of crush without looking weird.
I was wondering if there was anyway in which I could make the effect of the ungimmicked version stronger. Right now, the crushing isn't as amazing and all you get is a "oh thats cool" with plastic bottles. As I can only perform the effect with cans with japanese drinks due to requirements, I think that would look a tad odd. The effect works great with cans, but sadly the right kinds just arent that common.
Is there anyway for the effect to be stronger when using plastic bottles?

Thanks
Click to expand...
i don't use crush in my rep....i liek the effect but don't use it...if i was you i would message dan sperry....
 
I don't own Crush nor know the method, but I don't suppose you could enhance the dent after the performance? Like crush the bottle, and then pick it up and squash it even more with your fingers before handing it to the spectator (drawing no attention to this, of course) and they would almost certainly remember it as the bottle crushing completely in front of them? Just a suggestion, I don't know if it would be possible but I see no reason why not?
 
Here's an interesting idea you might find useful as well... Personally, I found it rather amusing. You could potentially use this idea if you carry a bag around with you if you go out, or if you perform at school, uni, work, etc.

I was reading a book by the exceptional German mentalist Ted Lesley, Paramiracles (if you're into mentalism it's a must have on your shelf, but interesting reading regardless). In it, he describes an effect where he borrows a wine glass from a spectator who has been drinking from it, and, without touching it, visibly bends the stem. I can only imagine seeing the effect live, it's really rather extraordinary, a wine glass is placed on a table and just starts visibly bending.

Afterwards, the performer looks around the room and asks people to check their own glasses - and some half a dozen spectators will find that their own wine glass has a bend in their stem as well, without the performing ever going remotely near them.

An absolutely extraordinary effect for a gala dinner or something or the sort.

However, Lesley then goes on to describe a ploy for the effect for a more intimate setting, which you might find useful.

He describes a situation where he invited a group of journalists to watch him perform. Having performed the effect, he frowned and apologised, saying that usually, he could bend the glass stem even more (it was already bent some 25 degrees). He then reached into a cupboard and showed them an example - a pre-bent glass with a HUGE bend in it (he includes the photo, I have no idea how it stays upright, with such a massive bend in it).

Of course, the journalists took photos of the glass with the massive bend in it, and when the headlines were published, that became the glass he bent. I hope now that it is obvious the same ploy could be used for Crush, if you so desire - the effect of the gimmicked version, without needing the gimmick!

Even if you don't perform for photo-op aware journalists, it is not unthinkable that friends and colleagues would do the same thing.

I believe it was Darwin Ortiz (I may be wrong - perhaps it was Paul Brook, I can't quite recall) who wrote that audiences want to convey the feeling they feel more than the actual effect; this will work in your favour with this ploy. Believe me, it's worth using if you carry a bag and will perform this effect.

There is one other thing going for you as well; Andy Nyman in his DVDs Get Nyman explains the disarming nature of a quick apology and how to capitalise on that effect to get away with some sneaky sneaky things.
 
Praet, that sounds fantastic! The idea behind that is genius, and I love the idea of bending a wine glass! Who is this Ted Lesley and why haven't I heard of him before? *frowns*
 
Wow Prae that really does sound amazing, i can not begin to imagine how powerful such an effect would be with wineglasses, and although im sure its pretty simple, i can not comprehend how it is possible either :eek:

I shall keep that one in mind, as you say it certainly could become useful with crush.
 
@ Randomwrath: Ted Lesley was, pardon me, I should say (he passed away a year and a half ago in late 2008), an exceptional German mentalist who is far better known in mentalism circles, I think. But his book Paramiracles ranks very highly on many reading lists; it's an excellent book. He was perhaps Germany's best known mentalist/magician, and certainly one of the most remarkable men in magic to have come from Germany since Punx. He also came out with The Working Performer's Marked Deck and the Teleport Envelope amongst other things.

@ Steve - It's incredibly simple, yet complex at the same time. The idea behind is incredibly simple and incredibly bold - it's just the execution of the effect that requires quite some preparation. Suffice to say your magic drawer probably doesn't have all the necessary parts :P
 
praetoritevong said:
@ Randomwrath: Ted Lesley was, pardon me, I should say (he passed away a year and a half ago in late 2008), an exceptional German mentalist who is far better known in mentalism circles, I think. But his book Paramiracles ranks very highly on many reading lists; it's an excellent book. He was perhaps Germany's best known mentalist/magician, and certainly one of the most remarkable men in magic to have come from Germany since Punx. He also came out with The Working Performer's Marked Deck and the Teleport Envelope amongst other things.

@ Steve - It's incredibly simple, yet complex at the same time. The idea behind is incredibly simple and incredibly bold - it's just the execution of the effect that requires quite some preparation. Suffice to say your magic drawer probably doesn't have all the necessary parts :P
Click to expand...

Cheers, I'll be sure to look him up when I have money to spare.
 
@Prae: That effect sounds kinda similar to Refraction by David Penn (?)
Although the roomful of bent wineglasses is an absolute miracle. Imagine if you apply that to all PK that you do...bend a fork, and all the forking forks in the room gets bent...freakyyy.

But referring to Prae's idea of taking out ANOTHER more crushed bottle; who would carry a crushed bottle with them everywhere? I think it would seem slightly absurd to the spectator if you take out a deformed bottle from your bag, without sufficient reason for keeping that bottle in your bag in the first place.
Perhaps say that you just did it in a back alley and it worked wonders, but now your powers seem depleted?
 
I did actually think of that after I posted. If you're not carrying a gimmick, why would you carry the extra bottle?

Short answer, I don't know, I didn't think it out that well :P I don't know what the actual gimmick either, so I'm going blind here. But I don't actually think the actual taking out thing is a problem. If it's what you want, the very fact that you can do absolutely anything you want to the pre-crushed gimmick means you can draw attention to it however you want, and you can show it whenever you like. "I did this to this one a bit earlier..." or "It's a good luck charm ;)" would do...

But still, I do think it's worth consideration. It's a different sort of effect to just carrying the gimmick around normally, and is better for some situations than others (or if you don't like gimmicks, etc... it's adaptable). Anyway, I know I started off posing a different question, answered your question, then returned to the first question, so I'll stop.

Regarding Refraction: There was a pretty big hubbub when Refraction came out due to crediting issues - Ted Lesley was credit in the DVD, but there were some issues with whether or not it was a ripoff, etc. That's my understanding anyway. Regardless, Ted definitely performed this a long time before Refraction came out.

As far as the PK comment goes... Isn't that one reason why Geller and others got so popular?
 
Thanks praetoritevong,
It is those little sneaky things that I love.
I remember Wayne Houchin having talked about something similiar. Taking two effects and letting them turn into one in the spectators mind. Such as Thread and Needle Swallowing becoming... the threaded needles out of the eye.
I remember I used this "technique" of a bit of apology then further enhancement a while back with a sharpie bend. More or less the amateur illusion bend, apologizing for it's... simplicity and switching out a 45 degree bent sharpie on the table and letting them find it themselves. Their reaction was quite... fun. They were sure that they saw a kid's illusion yet the product was in front of them.
I have Get Nyman and enjoy it quite thoroughly.
Thanks for the input.
 
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