Mentalism

[kaart]

Hey you guys,

i've got a question. I've been doing card magic for a long time now, about 6 years, and I feel like I should start doing some other magic as well. I've been starting cups and balls, spongeballs and coins (but I'm not great at false takes, so it's on the background for now), because I want to diverse my magic.

Lately I've been obsessing with Derren Brown videos. I've found some other mentalism acts, such as for example Berglass his crazy acts, and the DVD 'Into the Abyss" by Oz Pearlman. With the Inivisble deck, D+M's Heritage and some effects form into the Abyss I've started a small mentalism act.

But still, this is nothing compared to what Derren Brown does. Does anyone knows how I can get started with mentalism? I mean like some serious effects. I don't want to become a mentalist, but simply to have a strong mentalism routine. And perhaps, some other forms of close up magic as well?

Thanks!

 

[YRAMagicMan]

Force a card and you've got a potential mentalist effect, also pick up This is Mentalism.

Fake takes with sponges are terribly difficult. I do an entire routine with no fake takes. You really only need one or two put vanishes, a shuttle pass and a load.

I could go on, but I'm short on time

 

[rich23]

I highly recommend max maven's video mind dvd set you cant go
wrong with it.

 

[D ICE R]

Cassidy's Fundamentals

learn to be a mentalist then perform mentalism

 

[Austin Fields]

"I mean like some serious effects. I don't want to become a mentalist"

You won't be able to do any mentalism without being a mentalist first. It'll be perceived as just another trick, accomplished with some type of sleight of hand. Mentalism exists because of the character, not the tricks.

That said, check out Mathew Mellow's DVD set, I hear it has some good close up stuff.

 

[kaart]

I'm sorry if I may have appeared to be unrespectfull to mentalists I'm really interested in the subject, I wish there was a "royal road to mentalism" but it seems I've got a lot of reading to do.

 

[YRAMagicMan]

... I wish there was a "royal road to mentalism" but it seems I've got a lot of reading to do.

There is a "royal road to mentalism." Actually there are two of them. Practical Mental Effects ( Or Practical Mental Magic, I think both titles get you the same book) and 13 Steps to Mentalism are both "royal roads to mentalism."

 

[kaart]

Thanks YRAMagicMan
I've got a small question by the way.. is there ever any real predicition or manipulation of thoughts? Or detecting if someone is lying? I've seen the trick where you guess in which hand the coin is, and thought about doing it with a magnetic ring

 

[YRAMagicMan]

I'm not exactly the best person to answer this, I know a lot about magic literature, but I'm mainly a card guy when it comes to performing. I do dabble in mentalism though and I've read most of Anemann's book (I skipped the most of parts that I thought I'd never perform) and seen This Is Mentalism. I'll do what I can to answer your question and maybe someone else will cover anything I leave out or get wrong.

As far as predictions go, I only know effects where you have absolute control over the outcome. I would never do a prediction effect where I had any chance of getting it wrong. Though there may be psychological advantages to getting a prediction wrong every so often, after all, we're human.

Lie detecting, I have no clue! I'm sure if you studied the tells you could eventually pick up on it, but I've never heard of someone actually doing a public "lie detection act" where they let people just tell them things and figured out what was a lie. I do a card trick where I tell people to lie to me and I fake a lie detection. Also, there was a performance at EMC where someone did a lie detection (The Mind of Dr. Frost), but of course that was also faked.

There is some manipulation of thoughts in a way. Look at Vernon's psychological force for what may be a good example from card magic. I haven't read any of Banachek's work, but there may be stuff in there where you manipulate your spectators mind. I know you can "plant" thoughts through certain actions and phrases. Also, the classic "magicians choice" force may be an example of thought manipulation, but don't quote me on that. As far as manipulating someone's thoughts like we control and manipulate a deck of cards, I don't think that even a good mentalist has that much control over his spectators. In fact, I'm almost positive that no mentalist is that good.

 

[D ICE R]

Whilst PMM and 13 Steps are the bibles of mentalism, it does not mean they are the best places to start. The volume of the material would be more like Expert Card Technique as it implies that you understand the basics. To perform mentalism you need to think like a mentalist and not like a magician, other wise it will be mental magic. This is the worst result because everyone will dismiss your work even if you are doing it for real.

As far as 'real' mentalism is concerned there are many many things that one can do that is real in presentation as well as method. Obviously the which hand games have a method of tells which you are looking for, does this make it any less real. The basic premise for the effect is that they hide the coin and you will find it. That is how it looks and that is, you don't explicitly have to state that you are looking for psychological tells, however if you do then everything you say is 100% truthful.

There are many effects that I perform which are real in the audiences eyes. Even in magician's eyes most of the effect is real in the sense that what I am claiming to be doing I am actually performing. Real mentalists know that for the most part you will need to determine the information some how, either by forcing or peeking. (I know that there are other methods however for the beginner in mentalism we will just assume that all effects contain either of those two methods as the primary method.) Whilst there is a underhanded method used to determine a piece of information it is the 'real' methods that heighten the effect and inturn make it believable.

In conclusion if you want to learn 'real' mentalism you need to get your mind set correct first. You need to believe that what you are doing is real and then perform effects that meet your criteria.

 

[YRAMagicMan]

D ICE R, thanks for the great post, I was hoping you would chime in here. I believe I've learned something today!

 

[D ICE R]

If you ever have any questione regarding mentalism or even my thoughts on magic dont hesitate to send me a PM. I usually try to get back to you within a day or two.