Morals of making your own version

[Maaz Hasan]

I know I posted a thread at the start of this year about the morals of performing a trick you figured out, but this is different.

What morals do you guys have for creating your own version of something using an effect you saw someone perform? Specifically, I'm talking about looking at a performance, then thinking "How would I go about performing this?". Not reverse engineering it move for move, nor using their patter, but rather coming up with your own idea that accomplishes the same effect.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Being inspired by someone else is fine as long as you're not copying them.

What I can't stand is seeing someone steal someone else's material, particularly when it's not published on the market, and acting like they came up with the idea on their own.

My rule of thumb is this: Would the person who inspired me to create this routine be flattered or annoyed by my version?

 

[Maaz Hasan]

So just to further build on this, what about making your own gimmick that accomplishes the same task, though you don't know if it is the same gimmick?


Honestly, I've been asking for a few reasons.
A) I've never used a chop cup before, so I have no idea how one works. However, I thought it maybe a good idea to see if I can do it without a gimmick (if there eve is a gimmick involved), and figure out my own handling on it. This will help me get a better understanding of what I need to do prior to me purchasing one, and also help me practice my ball handling (gotta get to that Allen Iverson level, if you catch my drift )

 

[Maaz Hasan]

Lol never got to finish my post, I was editing and the time ran out.

B) I have impromptu routines that I see other people performing (similar effects), without knowing if the method is the same

C) There are gimmicks on the market which (without knowing what they are) I think "if I were to perform this, I would just do/use _____", and for some of them, I can make my own, without knowing what the original method is. Eg. Sans Minds recently released "Devil's Mark". I have an idea for a gimmick that would let me accomplish the same effect, though I have no idea if it is the same or not. I personally wouldn't want to throw $25 for a gimmick that I can substitute for one I made myself for just a dollar or 2.

If I'm not reverse engineering the exact method, nor looking around for freebies, but rather using my own ideas to accomplish the same effect, Would it still fall under stealing?

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Here's the thing - If you had never seen the product, would you have had the idea to create the gimmick or routine?

There's really no way to know, of course. Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't. I generally like to contact the creator if I don't want to spend the money on the product. I'll tell them something like, "I saw your product demo and it inspired me to create this thing here. What do you think of me performing with this?"

Real world example - When I wrote my first stage show I wanted a particular type of routine in it. I wanted to have someone visualize a ritualistic action and have it have an effect in reality. Turns out, the routine I wrote almost exactly duplicated a Luke Jermay routine from 7 Deceptions. When I found out, I wrote him an email and told him that I think I accidentally duplicated his routine, this is what I was going to do, what did he think of me performing this routine? His response was to thank me for actually contacting him about it, and that as long as I wasn't doing it on TV in England it was fine.

In my experience most guys in the magic world are pretty chill and will happily engage you in conversation about their work.

 

[Lord Magic]

I don't think that frankly speaking, there's anything wrong about making your own theories and versions about a trick you saw.
If people did not do that, magic would die out very quickly.
Just imagine:-
Someone must have done the coin vanish. And he/she was probably one of, if not the only, one who could do that in the world. If a different person did not figure it out, would you and I know how to perform a coin vanish today?
Say that the same person taught the method to a few. But then how did different methods crop up with the same ultimate purpose of vanishing a coin?
Honestly, making your own versions is the very basis of magic today. If that's unethical then all magicians should be performing tricks with the same method. Like you, I and every other magician in the world would use the same method to reverse a card in the deck.
Because the only way different methods developed is when someone else either knew the real method and made it better OR most probably, DID NOT KNOW the method and made his/her own way around the same effect.
Something to think about right?
Feel free to tell me if I was wrong tho...

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Feel free to tell me if I was wrong tho...

YOU'RE WRONG!

I kid.

I don't think there's anything wrong with creating your own versions of things you see. I encourage it, in fact. It's a great way to develop your creative skills.

The problem arises when someone creates a version of an effect that someone else created, and then performs it for the public as if they had the idea in the first place.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1993/04/05/secrets-of-the-magus -

Then he starts talking about this wonderful piece I did with a mechanical monkey—really one of the most bizarre routines I ever worked out—and I thank him, and he says, ‘Yeah, I get a tremendous response when I do that. Audiences just love it.’ And I say, ‘Let me ask you something. Suppose I invite you over to my house for dinner. We have a pleasant meal, we talk about magic, it’s an enjoyable evening. Then, as you’re about to leave, you walk into my living room and you pick up my television and walk out with it. You steal my television set. Would you do that?’ He says, ‘Of course not.’ And I say, ‘But you already did.’ He says, ‘What are you talking about?’ I say, ‘You stole my television!’ He says, ‘How can you say that? I’ve never even been to your house.’ This guy doesn’t even know what a metaphor is.

So it becomes a problem of defining when the line is crossed.

Think of it from the other side. Imagine you've created something really unique and new and interesting, and then someone comes along and starts doing the same thing. How frustrating would it be?

Personally I strive never to do material that seems like someone else's work. This is not always easy, but I'd like to think if anyone who has inspired me saw my work, they'd be happy about it. I also can't personally see why anyone would outright copy another person's piece, particularly if that piece is distinctive. A copy is always inferior.