New Generation of Magicians

[ryanbliss]

This is just a trend that i have seen over the last few years. and i have been guilty of this too so im not excluded.

It seems like the newer, younger generation, really has put a deep emphasis on sleights, and techniques, and things of this nature, rather than actual magic presentation

i used to be in the same boat. i loved learning every color change, and card control i could get my hands on. however learning from other magicians, i learned that all of this is pointless without a premise. magic is supposed to tell a story, and to be honest. the latest card control is not a very good story teller.

if we examine the works of some of the best "old school" magicians such as Larry Jennings, Michael Ammar, Tommy wonder, Jeff McBride, The Great Tomsoni, John Carney, ect.... we see that all of there magic, stage or not, has a presentation. its not just a quick little thing that takes 2 seconds to do. they created magic with a premise, a script, and motivation.

this kind of magic is entertaining. to be able to take a series of techniques and put them together with logical thought, and patter, and scripting, to create unique personalized experience with the audience, is important

thats another point. audience experiment. lets examine something, if you are doing a trick for someone, and you make it all about you, (hey watch this, check this out, watch what i can do), instead of getting your audience involved, whether through talking with them, or have them help with the trick, arn't we really deleting one of the most important aspects of magic?

magic is more than just the latest and greatest card control. its about your audience. and i feel that in this present day and age. more emphasis is being put on technique, rather than on figuring out what your audience would enjoy has a presentation, not just of your effects, but also of yourself, and the magic community you represent when you perform.

Let me know what you guys think of this.

 

[Luis Vega]

I think kids now want an easy reaction from people, since some of the tricks that exist today are very visual...in the other times, tricks weren`t so easy to get and the presentation was everything...

today magic is more easy to get since you only need a computer and a deck of cards...

the only thing left to do is to choose....

you want to be like all the crappy youtube magicians? or want to be unique?

If you want to be unique...you know what to do to get away from the cattle...

 

[chriswiehl]

slights hav always been important. but its that now of days magicians justwant to show off their milller cascade and goat change. with no patter. just move monkeys.
its not the moves, its the mindset

 

[joshrobarts]

i think a lot of it is that people have found an easier audience to get reactions from than layman. And its not just kids, magicians in general have found that an obscure sleight that is done well and accomplishes something not well known gets a standing ovation from magicians. A decent Cascade control, a anti-faro, these sleights are rare and fellow magicians freak out and give compliments up the wazzoo, where as spectators expect more, they expect a story, a personality, and a show. Its far easier nowadays to learn a sleight, make a video and show it to magicians and reap the rewards than to go out and make someone's day.

 

[RediSpades]

I wouldn't necessarily say that only the newer generation of magicians fall into this trap, but in the learning process, every magician does. It is because they are in the beginning stages and as they learn more, they begin to master more and more of how to show it. We hang around so many people who have been doing magic for a handful of months that it is what we are exposed to the most.

 

[ryanbliss]

thanks for the replies,

i really posted this because i was watching a lot of the old school godfathers of magic, and litterally said to myself, what the hell has happened to the art? there used to be theatrics. and now, its just a bunch of dvd releases of people trying to get their big break with impractical tricks, that have no place in any routine.

 

[Reapx]

there are magicians that just make an impractical trick to get there big break. but the tricks you may talk about do fit into a routine. you just have to work on the presentation of that trick.

 

[canadamagic]

Movemonkeys.

I see this too and I do think that it is important to have a wide variety of moves under you're belt. By all means I know that myself, I am a movemonkey. If I see something new, I want to learn it right away. As long as your presentation is where the magic counts.

Magicians forget that they are performing for spectators, not themselves. The spectator couldn't care less which move is more difficult and impressive when accomplished. As long as they feel the effect of the magic, it doesn't matter the moves to get there. Who cares what car you're driving, if you are all going to the same place (odd annalogy that popped in my head bhut I thought would work).

 

[Austin Fields]

Let me counter this with a link to my blog.

My name is Austin Fields, I've been a magician for six years.

And I believe that I stand for a true next generation of performers, performing for real people not cameras, and creating my own style, not patter from a dvd.

They are out there, they're just not really on this website

http://vimeo.com/10368386

http://vimeo.com/10784237

 

[Blindside462]

Beans is a great person to talk to about this subject.

I'm a grade A example of this.

I've fallen into the trap when I started magic. I started late freshman year in high school learning simple sleights. I just purchased every new magic item I could and I just practiced moves and put them to no good use. I knew more controls..shuffles...more than I new how to perform an effect. You can get off track very very easily. After almost a year every now and then I would get back into magic...but I would never advance myself. I knew no more tricks than A few thumbtip tricks, a really bad ACR sequence, and 2 card transpo. I found myself bored and right before I went to San Diego, over 4 years later, I then started my journey into advancing myself. I met Austin and Allen (Beans25 and Kotents) and to this day I can now say I will never be the same, I'll be better. I'm focusing on my presentation and I'm not trying to learn anything unless I know that it is something that I can add to a set. I really want to advance every trick I know into something that a spectator will remember for the rest of their lives. Presentation makes a huge impact on your magic and makes a huge difference in whether the spectator will remember the trick or they will just forget it right away.


Go out and perform!

 

[RediSpades]

I had the day to think of my last post, and I figured that I would add some more to what I said. Not every performance has to tell a story. As a magician our goal is to move the person we are performing. To have them shift to an emotion that we are trying to convey. I still remember seeing Teller's Shadow performance as I was awed by the artistic expression. I do think it is true that a lot of NOVICE magicians are failing to set up routines and learn the basics. They jump from one effect to the next, while avoiding learning the basics. I think it is always important to master the basics, even if you aren't using them at that time because later on, you will find a use for them. Just like a musician must learn the scales to master the art, we must get down certain shuffles and presentation styles to get the most of our performance.

 

[praetoritevong]

It's easier to perform for magicians than laymen.

 

[Blindside462]

As of today I am reading "Strong Magic" by Darwin Ortiz. Very powerful stuff.


I like were he talks about Intellectual vs Emotional belief.

This book is damn good

 

[MichalMystic]

Yes!

This is what I call a selfish magician and selfish learning of magic. It all about look at me and my black mysterious cloths. Or watch me do this knuckle busting effect even though you have to clue it knuckle busting.

This why Ive teamed up with a new company coming out soon called No B.S. Magic. We focus on teaching the real secrets of magic which is patter, body language and psychology.

I always throw out a challenge to the new generation. Do a routine or effect that uses maybe one or 2 of the easiest sleight know to man.... and blow peoples minds away! 99% Cant do! What many call simple magic, I call it the hardest type of magic to do cause your not just relying on the the effect itself but it has to be a combination of things to make it work.

This what the Masters knew and why they are the Masters.


Anyways I could rant on forever on this subject!

 

[Wallmott]

I have thought of this a lot latley and i just dont think that its young magicians, its the whole magic community that is falling into this. And i think that there is two reasons for this.

1. People have forgotten what magic really is.
It is entertainment and people who go to watch a show, concert, a move or whatever go because they want to have a good time. Most magicians does not seem to understand that and they think that a magician is just there to show how "awsome" they are most of the time very selfish and does performe just to boost their ego.

2. I think its the magic dealers fault. Why you might ask? Well let me explaine.
The dealers make money from selling us new magic and to earn more money they have to produce more magic. So most of the moves and material we see today is created just for the sake of selling it, it might not be good in the real world, but who cares?! its NEW!! it will fool everyone!!

So some respected magician makes a cool HD trailer and have all their friends tell that its the greatest most creative thing they ever seen. You NEED this now! It will change your magic forever!! And most people think its tru and buys their product.

 

[morpheis91]

Hey Guys I normally stay out of these discussions but to tell you the truth there have always been move monkeys! If you hang out with magicians enough you will see that the younger generation is producing some quality magicians. The thing that everyone here needs to realize is that not everyone is into magic for the same reason as you.

Lots of people do magic as nothing but a hobby and some of these hobbyist magicians are perfectly content with only performing for magicians, if it makes them happy to perfect the most complicated moves who are we to tell them "No, you MUST learn proper presentation." It is these hobbyist magicians that help fund sites like this one!

I personally perform on regular basis and have some consistent gigs. I focus on presentation 60% of the time and technical ability 40% of the time. There has to be a balance. But in my opinion the magic community isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Magic is more widespread than it used to be and is breaking into mainstream. There are some great performers out there that are from our generation that I have had the pleasure to meet.

Another thing is our generation is still very young and every magician at one point is a move monkey in their early stages of magic. Its just how the process works. First a magician learns lots of moves. He/She goes out and tries them. Some moves work well for the magician and some don't. The magician gets rid of the ones that don't work well and constantly refines the performances for the effects that do work well. Eventually (hopefully) developing the routines into real workers.

It just takes time for people to develop into performers, it doesn't just happen over night. It takes years. In a couple years you will see that people of the current generation are indeed improving their performances and magic is going to be doing well!

 

[ryanbliss]

im not saying that move monkeys are bad performers. take Bill Mallone, and Chris Kenner for example. i will say this, i think finding a good effect on the market, that is both practical, plays well, and is an actual piece of real magic, is like finding a needle in a haystack.

i think what is starting to happen is that performers are so interested in learning every new thing that comes out, that they never properly develope any presentation or premise for the things they already know. there are effects in magic that are considered classics. but you rarely ever see these now. think about it. when was the last time you saw a DAN and DAVE trick....oh yea. yesterday. but when was the last time you saw the classic Dai Vernon triumph, or ANYTHING out of bobo's coin magic. thats just the point im making

 

[morpheis91]

im not saying that move monkeys are bad performers. take Bill Mallone, and Chris Kenner for example. i will say this, i think finding a good effect on the market, that is both practical, plays well, and is an actual piece of real magic, is like finding a needle in a haystack.

i think what is starting to happen is that performers are so interested in learning every new thing that comes out, that they never properly develope any presentation or premise for the things they already know. there are effects in magic that are considered classics. but you rarely ever see these now. think about it. when was the last time you saw a DAN and DAVE trick....oh yea. yesterday. but when was the last time you saw the classic Dai Vernon triumph, or ANYTHING out of bobo's coin magic. thats just the point im making

I think its just a process, and honestly I always see classics in action. I hang out with lots of magicians here in Philly so I guess its different. I think the new is just as important as the old. Bobo's is an amazing resource for coin magic (common knowledge) Eric Jone's (Good friend) material is amazing and his coin roots begin with Bobo. I think you argument can go both ways, Im glad that good new material is hard to find because it is that fact that forces younger magicians to look into the past. After about of year of crap I looked at AoA amd Bobo's and have been hooked to classics. Also some material will not suit your performance style while others will, thats just how everything works. Thats how I got introduced to classics and thats my opinion!

 

[MichalMystic]

Good thread

This a very good thread but once again I see alot of " I hang out with alot of magicians" Or hobbiest for some reason shouldnt learn what magic about...


magic isnt a one sided thing. Magic isnt about just learning sleights, it isnt just about learning how to entertain... it a combination of all these thing that make magic what is it.

I personal wish there was some type of law where if you were into magic you could only learn 5 routine for the first year and that all you could perform.

You know what would happen if you did that? You be 80% ahead of most practicing magic today. And that the biggest issue.. stop practicing and start performing.

Because you can practice a routine or effect as long as you want but performing it for someone is 100% different and what you think you have down pat... you'll soon realize it you dont and that its not all about what your doing with your hands.

Heck I can make a crap load of videos of me doing a effect perfect after a zillion takes.... you know what I do? I smash peoples minds, I give them a experience they never had and thats a million time more rewarding then some comment on a youtube video Ive made.

Once again this why Ive very excited about No B.S. Magic coming out were going to work hard to change how magic is taught these days.

Heck just read the quote at the end of my post and that says it all.

 

[ryanbliss]

@ mystic,

if you need help with this company, let me know. im all about real practical magic.