Is show actual Live performances. I understand why at times that they don't. Bad Weather. people driving by and honking. Things that you can't control no matter how talented and experienced you are. But sometimes it gets a bit annoying when everybody does a video in front of a white screen and just does magic for the camera man *coughJaySankeycough*. Nothing gets me more excited for an effect or DVD than seeing actual peoples reactions on the street.
One thing I'd like to see more magic DVD's do.
- Thread starter Randy
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Until the end, I thought you were talking about web cam videos.
Since that's not what this topic is about, I'll change the thread title slightly and stay on the topic at hand.Personally, I don't think its necessary. Especially the street either. Sites like E and T11 really do put their EVERYTHING into the DVD's they do. So live street performances really are gifts. Sankey sometimes has an assistant and other magicians sometimes still do that or as you said, a quick performance for the camera. A performance for an assistant at least is nice. However, magic DVD's are meant for their secrets, not entertainment value. Any more than a quick performance for the camera is optional really. Is it nice? Yes. Is it a necessity? No.
-Doug
Until the end, I thought you were talking about web cam videos.
Personally, I don't think its necessary. Especially the street either. Sites like E and T11 really do put their EVERYTHING into the DVD's they do. So live street performances really are gifts. Sankey sometimes has an assistant and other magicians sometimes still do that or as you said, a quick performance for the camera. A performance for an assistant at least is nice. However, magic DVD's are meant for their secrets, not entertainment value. Any more than a quick performance for the camera is optional really. Is it nice? Yes. Is it a necessity? No.
-Doug
Yeah I agree with you but you got to admit that watching the trick being perform opens up a and shows you a feel of how the trick is supposed to be played out in real performances... it gives you an idea.
The thing with real live performances on the street or in a bar or whatever. Is that it also shows you that the effects are actually good for Real Life stuff and not just cool things to show magicians.
I recommend Gregory Wilson's "On the spot" DVD, because of it's entertainment value. It is about 2 hours long, it has great and easy effects. and lot's of live performances + performance/explanation in front of an assistant...
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Well if you know the method to a certain effect or effects after purchasing it, I think you would know on your own whether or not that effect or effects is good for the real world. The same thing could be said for books. In Art of Astonishments by Paul Harris, there are no trailers for it. Yet I still bought the 3 volumes because I have heard good things from them. If there is a magician who came out with an effect on their own for the first time and not with a company I'm familiar with, then I would just wait for some reviews first. No biggie. Live performances just add entertainment value. They don't add to the secret which in reality is what you pay for. You aren't paying for an amazing movie. You are paying for a secret.
-Doug
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I hope I don't come off as rude here because if I do, I don't mean to. I'm saying my opinion so please don't take offense. When I say the secret, I do mean the trick. Let's use the example of a trick like Believe which is sold here. You are paying for the secret so you can do the trick. So I think secret, it could really be the same thing as trick.
However, I still disagree with you. The price is for a few things actually.
1. So the magician can make a living.
2. So the secret is protected
If a DVD is put out for 30 bucks, magicians will buy it, but laymen wouldn't because that is a bit steep. 5 bucks though? That's pretty cheap so I don't think they would mind as much.
I do agree that performances are nice to have. I enjoy seeing them. I also take advantage of them and learn from them as well. Performances are MORE than just performance for me. However, they are not necessary. They are just nice to have.
Let's use an example I used earlier. Art of Astonishments is about $45 per book! For that price I'm paying, I better get a performance or two out of each book! No. I'm not getting any performances. I'm just getting text on paper. However, in that text is some of the best secrets you will ever see on paper.
I hope you see where I'm coming from. They are nice to see. I really enjoy them. However, they are not required.
-Doug
In a trick there's not 1 secret, there's 50.
You won't learn all those secrets from just learning the trick by itself, you'll learn a lot more from seeing it performed.
You could of course, go out on your own and perform it to see how it's meant to look, but where's the fun in that?
You won't learn all those secrets from just learning the trick by itself, you'll learn a lot more from seeing it performed.
You could of course, go out on your own and perform it to see how it's meant to look, but where's the fun in that?
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In a trick there's not 1 secret, there's 50.
You won't learn all those secrets from just learning the trick by itself, you'll learn a lot more from seeing it performed.
You could of course, go out on your own and perform it to see how it's meant to look, but where's the fun in that?
Something I should had clarified earlier is that performances FOR THE CAMERA should at least be required so that the person watching can see what it looks like. However, anything more than that as I said earlier is not necessary. Should had said that earlier.
-Doug
1. I think if I'm shelling out $30 for a dvd, the least they should do is throw a couple of live performances on there. I don't think it's a gift, I think it should be mandatory.
2. If you're complaining about price per trick, buy a book and get more bang for you buck than you can imagine.
Best.
Steve
2. If you're complaining about price per trick, buy a book and get more bang for you buck than you can imagine.
Best.
Steve
Until the end, I thought you were talking about web cam videos.
Personally, I don't think its necessary. Especially the street either. Sites like E and T11 really do put their EVERYTHING into the DVD's they do. So live street performances really are gifts. Sankey sometimes has an assistant and other magicians sometimes still do that or as you said, a quick performance for the camera. A performance for an assistant at least is nice. However, magic DVD's are meant for their secrets, not entertainment value. Any more than a quick performance for the camera is optional really. Is it nice? Yes. Is it a necessity? No.
-Doug
To be honest, I think that the fact that it is not considered a necessity is rather shameful. Whatever happened to the good days of magic, where only experienced magicians put out material - and when the ad copy said, "from personal repertoire", it actually meant something? It meant a lifetime of work - years and years of research and refinement.
Obviously, a huge part of magic is its presentation. I believe that you cannot learn all the nuances of the effect without watching the creator perform it for real live people. It's all very good to tell someone to say this in this situation, and pull this sleight at this time, but it's very different to actually seeing the master at work.
Unfortunately, I think the standard of teaching magic has dropped, and hence it is no longer considered a necessity. The creators do not know how to teach magic, and as long as the necessary sleights are taught - this is the standard that people are happy with, which I think is sad. Now, it is good enough to simply teach the sleights, show how it will go, and not teach nuances. Not teach history. Not teach the performance but merely the secret - essentially, teaching half of what should be taught.
Take Kard Klub for example. The value of that DVD is in the criticism of numerous street presentations. And there are lots and lots of it. In my opinion it is worth more than any of the other E DVDs. That will help your magic and improve your magic MUCH MORE than any collection of tricks and sleights such as Ninja and Crash Course ever will. Lots of young magicians grow up to learn the secret, not enough know how to present it. Many tricks could be so much more, but people are simply happy with great reactions when reactions could be unimaginable.
This, as I have said, is simply a dropping of standards, and for this reason I disagree Doug.
Well that's my point.. A lot of time's we don't get real world performances. Which actually HELP to build interest in the DVD's.
When you see a DVD with people freaking out, crying. etc etc. Doesn't that get you hyped up for it. Rather than seeing a guy do a couple of good tricks in front of white screen talking to the camera man.
Also I'd like to see L&L use other people besides the same group they've been using for like 100 years.
I do get a bit annoyed when I see Sankey just perform his effects for the camera man or some random chick with techno music playing in the back ground (Rev Coin magic 2.0 sucked.). The guy is obviously an extremely talented performer.. So why is it he only had TWO or 3 videos of him actually performing his materiel on a live audience.
I also feel that THIS is the reason why more and more people lack good presentation in their effects. Because they never see any in the DVD's they buy. They see a guy perform in front of the camera man.. You can't really get good presentational or misdirection skills when standing in front of the camera man.
When you see a DVD with people freaking out, crying. etc etc. Doesn't that get you hyped up for it. Rather than seeing a guy do a couple of good tricks in front of white screen talking to the camera man.
Also I'd like to see L&L use other people besides the same group they've been using for like 100 years.
I do get a bit annoyed when I see Sankey just perform his effects for the camera man or some random chick with techno music playing in the back ground (Rev Coin magic 2.0 sucked.). The guy is obviously an extremely talented performer.. So why is it he only had TWO or 3 videos of him actually performing his materiel on a live audience.
I also feel that THIS is the reason why more and more people lack good presentation in their effects. Because they never see any in the DVD's they buy. They see a guy perform in front of the camera man.. You can't really get good presentational or misdirection skills when standing in front of the camera man.
No one wakes up and says: "Oh, Im going to f*** up some magicians today" Ergo, no one is going to shell out $5 to buy a dvd, let alone $30. I don't see what people get so worked up about pricing and hecklers buying dvds.
Face it, theres better things to do.
Regardless, Live performances would be nice, but are definately not necessary. Except, of course, when you spend your life's savings on a monstrousity like TA, where performances ARE necessary. It all depends on the budget the producers have.
Live perofrmances mean lugging around a camera and that takes time.
Time = Money, so the more time they spend filming and editing, the more money is necessary.
Money doesn't grow on trees.
My logic is sugar coated, but nonetheless followable.
Gustav
Face it, theres better things to do.
Regardless, Live performances would be nice, but are definately not necessary. Except, of course, when you spend your life's savings on a monstrousity like TA, where performances ARE necessary. It all depends on the budget the producers have.
Live perofrmances mean lugging around a camera and that takes time.
Time = Money, so the more time they spend filming and editing, the more money is necessary.
Money doesn't grow on trees.
My logic is sugar coated, but nonetheless followable.
Gustav
So...you pay $30 for a well protected secret with no live performances just 30 to keep a secret! Wow, im not saying that i dont buy some of these 1 trick dvds....but not to include a performance is laziness.
Also if you buy a book.....it has 50-100 tricks in the book well worth the mone and explains how to perform it and presentation ideas in text. You get way more then just one trick.
Also if you buy a book.....it has 50-100 tricks in the book well worth the mone and explains how to perform it and presentation ideas in text. You get way more then just one trick.
I agree with you 100%. I think that the street performances give you better insight and a lot of ways to handle the 'what if' moments that we all have. That is why I love the style of Gregory Wilson's On The Spot. It shows you each effect performed on the street and in the studio before explanation. Thats how I feel it should be.
-Michael
A book is good for some people, but some people like to watch how a trick should be performed and handled and learn it like that.