I know there is all this talk about whether or not to combine mentalism and magic. This topic has gone on for some time now, but what are your thoughts about doing all the different types of performance (sorry, I could not think of a better way to word it)? By this I mean doing stage shows and parties when you have a gig and working in restaurants some days, but also busking so when you do not have a gig you still have a source of income. I know a lot of people probably do restaurant work and the bigger events, but what are your opinions on also being a street performer when you are not busy?
Opinion on Multiple Types of Magic
- Thread starter junkbox
- Start date
When it comes to the mixing of Magic with Mentalism I'd point you to this resource in that it is more convenient that my ranting on things here. The short story is simple however, the psychological dynamics between the two art forms conflict; people come to a magic show knowing it's all tricks but when they come to see a Mind Reader they are encouraged to believe that what we do is genuine and to do otherwise neuters our ability to be effective and reveals us as frauds. . . as Annemann pointed out, "Nobody Wants to Pay to See a Fake Mind Reader". But we have a bigger problem today in that the lines have been deliberately blurred by money hungry merchants & ego's alike; we now have fools that think David Copperfield was one of the greatest mentalists to ever live these lines of identity are so blurred.
As a rule Mentalism appeals to the mind when magic appeals to the eyes. Both are story-line dependent (presentation) and both rely on aspects of slight-of-hand (deception) but they are only kindred art forms; side show talent, ventriloquism, juggling, mime, puppetry and a short list of other variety talents are all "Kindred" art forms to magic but we rarely see situations in which they are being moshed together such as we see in the market since the late 1990s. . . and adding insult to injury are idiots, like Criss Angel, who insist on moshing things together (such as how it's stealing the blindfold drive for a cheap PR move . . . ).
BUT. . . we do have "Mental Magic" which for the most part, looks more like a magic trick. Larry Becker's Casino Royal is a great example of this. It's a fun routine but because of all the props used and the story line around it, the public knows it's a gag. . . Smash & Stab has become just such a mockery; it's supposed to be a potent demonstration of Mental Prowess but it's seen in so many magic shows now days that it's lost it's value. . . same goes with the Mental Epic and as a rule, most any effect in which obvious props are employed -- Mentalism is clean and seemingly propless. Mental Magic has a mental/psychic them but incorporates props. . . sadly, so many schlock performers are now conveniently carrying around book-tests, that they will soon be relegated to the same fate.
To my knowledge this is the only situation in which the mixing of related art forms is an issue though true escape artistry comes in at a close second; there's a huge difference between presenting seemingly dangerous escapes that are part of an illusion system and doing legit escapes. Escape Shows will frequently blend tricks with legit stunts for the sake of production value and amusement, but when it comes to actually doing the legit work; we're not looking at magic tricks but actual life & death scenarios in most instances. . . well thought out systems but dangerous nonetheless.
Another way of looking at this issue, especially when it comes to Mentalism & Magic, is that you will never find a Mentalist trying to figure out how to put a Dove Pan or Sawing Cabinet into his show and yet, you will find dozens of magicians' clamoring over a bit they saw in a Mentalism and doing their best to at least replicate it for their act. I know, my closest friend stole a piece from my show the minute he saw it and now there are at least 5 magicians in the area doing it. . . and it was once a highlight to my show. As Charlie Reynold's pointed out decades ago, "Magicians are Thieves!" few of them respect boundaries and the world "NO".
As to the rest of your post. . . well, it's confusing to me. . . you open with one example and then migrate over to "what do you do in your down time?"
You might want to clarify things a bit.
As a rule Mentalism appeals to the mind when magic appeals to the eyes. Both are story-line dependent (presentation) and both rely on aspects of slight-of-hand (deception) but they are only kindred art forms; side show talent, ventriloquism, juggling, mime, puppetry and a short list of other variety talents are all "Kindred" art forms to magic but we rarely see situations in which they are being moshed together such as we see in the market since the late 1990s. . . and adding insult to injury are idiots, like Criss Angel, who insist on moshing things together (such as how it's stealing the blindfold drive for a cheap PR move . . . ).
BUT. . . we do have "Mental Magic" which for the most part, looks more like a magic trick. Larry Becker's Casino Royal is a great example of this. It's a fun routine but because of all the props used and the story line around it, the public knows it's a gag. . . Smash & Stab has become just such a mockery; it's supposed to be a potent demonstration of Mental Prowess but it's seen in so many magic shows now days that it's lost it's value. . . same goes with the Mental Epic and as a rule, most any effect in which obvious props are employed -- Mentalism is clean and seemingly propless. Mental Magic has a mental/psychic them but incorporates props. . . sadly, so many schlock performers are now conveniently carrying around book-tests, that they will soon be relegated to the same fate.
To my knowledge this is the only situation in which the mixing of related art forms is an issue though true escape artistry comes in at a close second; there's a huge difference between presenting seemingly dangerous escapes that are part of an illusion system and doing legit escapes. Escape Shows will frequently blend tricks with legit stunts for the sake of production value and amusement, but when it comes to actually doing the legit work; we're not looking at magic tricks but actual life & death scenarios in most instances. . . well thought out systems but dangerous nonetheless.
Another way of looking at this issue, especially when it comes to Mentalism & Magic, is that you will never find a Mentalist trying to figure out how to put a Dove Pan or Sawing Cabinet into his show and yet, you will find dozens of magicians' clamoring over a bit they saw in a Mentalism and doing their best to at least replicate it for their act. I know, my closest friend stole a piece from my show the minute he saw it and now there are at least 5 magicians in the area doing it. . . and it was once a highlight to my show. As Charlie Reynold's pointed out decades ago, "Magicians are Thieves!" few of them respect boundaries and the world "NO".
As to the rest of your post. . . well, it's confusing to me. . . you open with one example and then migrate over to "what do you do in your down time?"
You might want to clarify things a bit.
I believe what you are describing, junkbox, is what professionals call "paying the bills".
It's rare for a performer to make their entire living on one type of performance. For every Dan Sperry doing a bit grand illusion show there's probably a few hundred guys working every gig they can get their grubby mitts on. This is why the saying exists, "Amateurs are the ones who innovate in magic - the professionals are too busy getting the next gig".
In general I believe most working magicians will probably make the majority of their money doing strolling gigs. I don't have any research or numbers to back this up, it just makes sense to me. It's the easiest way to make money as a magician. Many of them will also get some kind of stage work as well (Parlor or big stage). It's also my understanding that busking is what you do when you can't get either of those lined up and you still have bills to pay and that pesky need to eat.
There are certainly people who do quite well busking, but most don't. Busking is rough. It takes a special kind of person to do very well with it.
So overall I say it's not only no problem to do all of those - most likely you'll have to.
It's rare for a performer to make their entire living on one type of performance. For every Dan Sperry doing a bit grand illusion show there's probably a few hundred guys working every gig they can get their grubby mitts on. This is why the saying exists, "Amateurs are the ones who innovate in magic - the professionals are too busy getting the next gig".
In general I believe most working magicians will probably make the majority of their money doing strolling gigs. I don't have any research or numbers to back this up, it just makes sense to me. It's the easiest way to make money as a magician. Many of them will also get some kind of stage work as well (Parlor or big stage). It's also my understanding that busking is what you do when you can't get either of those lined up and you still have bills to pay and that pesky need to eat.
There are certainly people who do quite well busking, but most don't. Busking is rough. It takes a special kind of person to do very well with it.
So overall I say it's not only no problem to do all of those - most likely you'll have to.
Sorry, I realize how confusing that is. I was very tired at the time.
I was wondering what your thoughts are about doing busking on the side while you do not have a gig that day. I was wondering if being a street performer could "degrade" the value of your stage show or other gigs because it could be viewed as "Why should we pay you so much? You perform for free on the streets all the time."
I was wondering what your thoughts are about doing busking on the side while you do not have a gig that day. I was wondering if being a street performer could "degrade" the value of your stage show or other gigs because it could be viewed as "Why should we pay you so much? You perform for free on the streets all the time."
No, the street show is a preview for your big show. They have to get tickets to see that material.
The key there is not to perform the same material in all places. Which you shouldn't be doing anyway.
Yeah, but how do they know that? They have no way of knowing that you have better tricks up your sleeves.
Do you mean that if you are going to busk and do paid gigs then while you are in the streets you need to continually remind the spectators that you do other shows and that this is just a little preview for that show? I would imagine that this takes away from the money you would end up making because the word preview or anything similar implies free sample.
Do you mean that if you are going to busk and do paid gigs then while you are in the streets you need to continually remind the spectators that you do other shows and that this is just a little preview for that show? I would imagine that this takes away from the money you would end up making because the word preview or anything similar implies free sample.
The same could be said for strolling gigs, or restaurant work. And yet people get bookings through those.
Also, I wouldn't say it's a preview - it's a different show altogether. Why would you be out actively hawking for gigs when you're trying to earn? If you're good, they'll ask if they could hire you for other kinds of things.
"Paying Your Rent" is the key and why most of us have a "Day Job" of some kind, there are very, very few full time working magicians and fewer that have an established specialty act that can be marketed. Sadly, this latter factor exist because of the stress and "misdirection" created by the hustle that goes into mere survival let alone creating that "Master Piece" so to speak.
Magic is a strange mistress and it's up to us to make key decisions when it comes to how we make your rent and represent ourselves. Most of the bigger name specialty acts luck into their situation by getting seen by the right person at the right time; my one and only big break came to me via this very manner, the rest of the time I've had to bust my butt, go hungry more than a few times and take side jobs of most every description. That said, there is another side to this that rarely gets focused on because the majority of us only want to survive doing magic. I'm referring to the business side of things and creating & selling an actual product. THIS is the second reason we take all those odd jobs; so we can reinvest at least 30% of our earnings (if you work by the rule of Joel Bauer's "Hustle Hustle") into building that Act. . . not a show, but a simple 10-15 minute commercial act that is marketable; THIS IS YOUR PRODUCT and it is up to you to create it from the ground up. Similarly, all that side work you do should lend itself, in some way, towards that goal.
Even before I started moving away from big stage to Mentalism I was working as a Reader by day, a consultant by appointment (on magic related stuff) and writing for three different New Age type publications. . . I was building an image and resume. Years earlier I was busking on the streets of Hollywood and Venice Beach as a punk rocker of sorts, because the "street kid" image is what worked with the illusion act I had built and a show called "Just Trix"
The more we are able to use opportunity in this way, the better our ability to focus on the actual goal and work towards it no matter what side line we're doing.
You mention Mentalism; if this is your goal then what's available to you for establishing & embellishing that image? What can you do to support the claims you will make as that entity and most important, how much are you willing to sacrifice?
Show biz is a brutal mistress that demand constant attention if you're to survive; especially in your early years of development. But she also demands that we pay attention to what's not hot right now and plan for the next big deal. Creating a Mental Act right now is akin to shooting yourself in the foot because every Tom, Dick & Harry out there claims to be a Mentalist -- the industry is swamped and a mind reader, even a major player like Banachek, is no longer seen as a novelty that's worth paying big money for. . . we're literally a dime a dozen in that many will take work under the national average, due to desperation; desperation to show off, desperation to make rent; desperation to meet new people and make new connections. Problem is, when you work out of desperation you loose! People smell it and don't want anything to do with it because it negates confidence. Which brings us to that other point I made, "How much are you willing to sacrifice?"
I remember when Franz Harary shared an apartment with at least five other incredibly talented individuals just for the sake of survival; everyone helping the other in some way. All major players endure such hardships unless they luck into situations or are an invented commodity -- a commercial creation a.k.a. the poor little rich kid who's parents bought his career. . . and it's grossly common these days.
The Moral of the Story is. . . .don't just take jobs take jobs that count; situations that will help you grow your character and the image you want to be known for. Be picky and don't be hesitant to work outside of magic doing things like Modeling, being a pitchman as flea markets and festivals. If you decide to busk then take on your chosen character and design what you do around your goal so as to form your image. Finally, it's ok to take a day job; 90% of actors, comics and other such artists started out as laborers, waiters and warehousemen.
Harrison Ford was a carpenter for George Lucas. I think he was building Lucas' cabinets when he got the Han Solo part.
I advocate having a day job, personally. I think it allows one to have a lot more freedom in creating your act because you can say no to any gig that doesn't serve the character properly.
Harrison is actually a fine wood working carpenter and still makes stuff (or did for a long while). But that's not my reason to quote you here, it's that second line. . . turning down gigs that don't serve the character properly, something so few of us ever digest.
Max Maven, even when facing hard times and not being able to cover his rent (easily) would turn down gigs because they didn't want Max they just wanted a monkey in a suit. Rick Maue and at least a dozen other guys I know in Mentalism do the same thing; we don't take any gig that comes along because a promoter calls, we only take the gigs that are offered to US specifically because the talent buyer wants US and not just anyone that can "play a mind reader".
This should apply to general magic as well but as we've noted in this thread we have hundreds of guys & gals that chase the gigs rather than selling a product; they'll go out balloon twisting, juggling, face painting, clowning, stilt walking, etc. even singing & dancing in someone else's show vs. creating a program that talent buyers can see and know what they are getting a.k.a. being a "professional". . . and NO being a Pro doesn't simply mean that someone gave you $5.00 for doing a trick. There are lots of people paid for doing things they aren't qualified in; "Professionals" are the one's that aren't just qualified they take the extra steps to distinguish themselves from all the others who are just looking for a pay day.
Hell, I'm still seen as a pro though I've not performed in nearly 5 years (outside of goofing around here and there). I'm a "pro" not because I used to do shows or the fact that I make a little bit of cash by selling my books here and there. No, I'm a pro because of my knowledge and my consistency as well as my background. I'm still working within my chosen trade I'm just not peddling it at the moment (or all of you would owe me thousands of dollars. . . hmmmm???)
Being a "Professional" involves a specific mind set and approach. In our world it means understanding how to operate a small business in which we are the product, how to package that product and bring it to market. Sometimes this means working a day job to support our "business" until we can get things off the ground and sometimes it means that our business is just a side line.
Thank you.
I was at a lecture a while ago - One of the last lectures I attended, actually. The guy, who's name I don't recall but who's face I'd recognize if I saw it again, was a comedy magician from New England. I barely remember his lecture - all I remember was some comedy bits that made me laugh and him saying that all he says is, "Yes" when it comes to gigs. He had a show prepared for any different kind of gig. Kids shows, birthday shows, adult shows, comedy shows. He did them well, I'll give him that - but the "Always say yes" part ground on me.
That's when I realized that most magicians that I've encountered are not theater people - they're tradesmen. They execute a skill and they will execute that skill for anyone that pays them enough.
Whereas a theater person, an artist, will perform when they can bring their performance to its fullest potential.
For years such types were known as "whores' in that they will take any job and too, many will undercut the pros that have a proven act.
Being a Jack of All Trades is not what Magic is about. I've been lectured by far too many agents about offering way too much and how that makes me look weak. . . I used to have the birthday party package, the Smoker show and Lady's Night shows, etc. but I was told by my management to reduce it down to two programs; close up and stage. To offer only those two programs with the focus being on the stage act. The result was better paying gigs with and for VIP type clients as well as more consulting gigs because I was known for having resources and being resourceful . . . networking I guess you could say.
I'm simply echoing what I was taught and what was reinforced in me by the key players out there as far as talent buying & selling are concerned. I was also taught to say no to those gigs that didn't want my package. . . my product.
Being a Jack of All Trades is not what Magic is about. I've been lectured by far too many agents about offering way too much and how that makes me look weak. . . I used to have the birthday party package, the Smoker show and Lady's Night shows, etc. but I was told by my management to reduce it down to two programs; close up and stage. To offer only those two programs with the focus being on the stage act. The result was better paying gigs with and for VIP type clients as well as more consulting gigs because I was known for having resources and being resourceful . . . networking I guess you could say.
I'm simply echoing what I was taught and what was reinforced in me by the key players out there as far as talent buying & selling are concerned. I was also taught to say no to those gigs that didn't want my package. . . my product.