Pricing Discussion

[TylerScottIllusionist]

I was reading a forum post on here and Josh Burch mentioned something that definitely struck my interest. He said that Rich Ferguson says that any magician performing in the states that knows three card tricks should be able to charge $350 for a show. This got me thinking about discussing what has been thought by others to be not to be up for discussion (just like the myth you should never talk about your wages with coworkers).

My research has lead me to the following price points for a novice level to intermediate performer level (to clarify someone who can entertain and has polished skills but isn't necessarily Shin Lim).
Kid's birthday parties: $100+/hr. (additional fees of travel and possible balloon animals on top of the $100).
Corporate stage show: $500
Corporate Walk Around: $200/hr.
Restaurant Walk Around: $100/hr.
Headlining Stage Show: $20/ticket, $55/orchestra seating
Wedding Walk Around: $200-$500/hr. (heavily depends on wedding)

So what do you guys think? Are some areas too high or too low in price? What have you found in your experience? I think this is a very important discussion and I would love to hear your thoughts!

 

[Stu-pendous]

In talking with my local magic club when I started getting bookings they told me to always book more than you think you're worth. If you charge too little sometimes it's seen as cheaper quality by some layman. They'll see the higher charging magic and think they are more of a premium performer.
Apparently I was under charging a lot. I'd think "jeeze I'm just doing some little tricks how could someone want to pay me $250 (Australian) an hour for this?
But that ended up being almost everyone's base rate.
All the prices you mentioned are pretty much on par with what I charge now, and I'm 100% comfortable with asking for that now. Though I know a guy who charges upwards of $1000 for gigs and still gets booked.

 

[TylerScottIllusionist]

In talking with my local magic club when I started getting bookings they told me to always book more than you think you're worth. If you charge too little sometimes it's seen as cheaper quality by some layman. They'll see the higher charging magic and think they are more of a premium performer.
Apparently I was under charging a lot. I'd think "jeeze I'm just doing some little tricks how could someone want to pay me $250 (Australian) an hour for this?
But that ended up being almost everyone's base rate.
All the prices you mentioned are pretty much on par with what I charge now, and I'm 100% comfortable with asking for that now. Though I know a guy who charges upwards of $1000 for gigs and still gets booked.

Thank you for sharing your experience Stu-pendous!

This is one area that I'm not very experienced with so I definitely value any input I can get from people on this subject. I have heard some of the concepts you mentioned about how laymen see a higher priced magician being more of a "premium level" magician. Another thing I heard is that once you have asked for one price and improve your performance and skills later on, the same client will expect to pay you the same price they did prior and will be upset at a higher price change. So it is very dangerous to undersell yourself from the beginning. The only problem with this is asking too much could potentially affect the number of gigs per month. But I could be wrong in that as well. This is definitely a difficult balancing act.

 

[RealityOne]

A lot is going to depend on the area of the country you are in. The Northeast and West Coast are going to be more expensive than the Midwest and South. My thoughts are below for areas I have experience with in the Northeast.

Kid's birthday parties: $100+/hr. I'd say $250 for 45 minutes
Corporate stage show: $500 I'd say $1,000
Corporate Walk Around: $200/hr.
Restaurant Walk Around: $100/hr. This seems really high to me.
Headlining Stage Show: $20/ticket, $55/orchestra seating Depends on size of venue and cost of venue. I'd charge $25 and $45.
Wedding Walk Around: $200-$500/hr. (heavily depends on wedding)

I don't agree that knowing a couple of card tricks or having a Run Rabbit Run prop is enough for you to charge top dollar. There are a number of factors. One significant factor is AGE. Under 18 will be difficult unless you have... EXPERIENCE. Another factor is your level of PROFESSIONALISM. This means how you dress, how you transport your props, the quality of your props (plastic cups and balls vs. a set from Rings N Things), how polished your show is (more on this later), your marketing materials and the quality of your interaction with potential customers. Experience and professionalism lead to REPUTATION.

This comment isn't for @TylerScottIllusionist (because I know you understand this). DON'T BOOK A GIG UNLESS YOU HAVE A SHOW!! By having a show, I mean you have a number of routines and effects that have a developed presentation and that you can perform flawlessly (the difference between practicing until you can perform the effect correctly and practicing until there is no way you can perform it incorrectly) because you have practiced (the sleights) and rehearsed (the sleights and presentation). Otherwise, you inevitably give the impression of not being ready for prime time and leave your customers feeling swindled.

 

[RickEverhart]

Great post David.

I am not shy and will share my rates and of course it also depends upon your area/demographics as well. I am located in an area of Ohio that does not spend lots of money on things like this nor do I want to travel more than an hour away so this is what I have found works for me.

For balloon sculpting: $90 per hour (client must book me for a min. of 2 hours)
Restaurant walk-around $50 per hour
Birthday Party Show $150 for 35 minutes $175 for balloon animals for the kid afterwards
Corporate/Private Party - Close Up Show $250 for 45 minutes
Stage Show/Corporate - $500 for 45 minutes

 

[Tom Wong]

Can any UK magicians share their rates as I live in the UK. I also think that it'd be interesting to compare with the standard U.S. rates!

 

[willtupper]

I don't have a lot that I can add to this discussion. But, I would like to say this:

1) The great Jamie D. Grant wrote a wonderful essay on this very topic in his amazing book on being a working magician, The Approach.

2. Whenever I read advice that magicians give other magicians (and I read a lot of it, because I need guidance as much as anyone), I think of this quote from the novel Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah:

Argue
for your limitations,
and sure enough,
they're
yours.

Don't let anyone tell you what you can't do, what you can't charge, who you can't be.

I have no proof of this whatsoever, but I'd wager someone told Piff the Magic Dragon that he couldn't perform magic in a dragon costume. Probably because it was "dumb."

Or that Houdini couldn't do what Houdini did.

Or Blaine.

Or Houchin.

Or Bayme.

Or... see what I mean? Sometimes I think the advice that's given to magicians is exactly what's limiting magic.

Even though, we know. Magic's the best, yes?

Like eating pizza while having sex (young people reading this: trust me on this. But don't rush your life!).

And yet, magic's all too often relegated to... to the after dinner mint of entertainment.

Rather than the main course.

So, yeah. Get out there and ask for more money.

Try things that you're told not to do. You might fail. But don't worry.

You'll learn a lot when it happens.

And the next time? You'll be more ready.

And better prepared to take your spectators somewhere new, and spectacular.

 

[RickEverhart]

I don't have a lot that I can add to this discussion. But, I would like to say this:

1) The great Jamie D. Grant wrote a wonderful essay on this very topic in his amazing book on being a working magician, The Approach.

2. Whenever I read advice that magicians give other magicians (and I read a lot of it, because I need guidance as much as anyone), I think of this quote from the novel Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah:

Argue
for your limitations,
and sure enough,
they're
yours.

Don't let anyone tell you what you can't do, what you can't charge, who you can't be.

I have no proof of this whatsoever, but I'd wager someone told Piff the Magic Dragon that he couldn't perform magic in a dragon costume. Probably because it was "dumb."

Or that Houdini couldn't do what Houdini did.

Or Blaine.

Or Houchin.

Or Bayme.

Or... see what I mean? Sometimes I think the advice that's given to magicians is exactly what's limiting magic.

Even though, we know. Magic's the best, yes?

Like eating pizza while having sex (young people reading this: trust me on this. But don't rush your life!).

And yet, magic's all too often relegated to... to the after dinner mint of entertainment.

Rather than the main course.

So, yeah. Get out there and ask for more money.

Try things that you're told not to do. You might fail. But don't worry.

You'll learn a lot when it happens.

And the next time? You'll be more ready.

And better prepared to take your spectators somewhere new, and spectacular.

The Approach is a phenomenal resource that many of these new aspiring guys should purchase right away. I wish I had a book like that 20 years ago. I learned by jumping straight into the fire. And boy was the fun (sarcasm)

 

[hitlab2]

thanks for sharing, I have found this thread very useful

 

[Maaz Hasan]

How much would you guys say a Highschooler that is just starting out should charge (Birthday parties, gatherings, walk around)? I have some major opportunities, even thinking about going at a few for free to get my name out around the area.

 

[RickEverhart]

How much would you guys say a Highschooler that is just starting out should charge (Birthday parties, gatherings, walk around)? I have some major opportunities, even thinking about going at a few for free to get my name out around the area.

My first birthday party show ever 20 years ago I charged $50 for a friend's child. The money didn't matter to me. It was about getting exposure and learning how to put a show together and how to handle the kids. To me that paid dividends compared to the financial piece.

It is a double edged sword so to speak though when doing things for "free" because then you become well known as the "free guy" who all companies and fundraiser chairmen want to contact to get you. Plus this ticks off your other local workers who are doing it for a living.

I would just charge $50 at first until you have your bearings and know what you are doing. Just my honest opinion.

 

[Maaz Hasan]

My first birthday party show ever 20 years ago I charged $50 for a friend's child. The money didn't matter to me. It was about getting exposure and learning how to put a show together and how to handle the kids. To me that paid dividends compared to the financial piece.

It is a double edged sword so to speak though when doing things for "free" because then you become well known as the "free guy" who all companies and fundraiser chairmen want to contact to get you. Plus this ticks off your other local workers who are doing it for a living.

I would just charge $50 at first until you have your bearings and know what you are doing. Just my honest opinion.

Thanks! That's what I was worried about (I wasn't quite sure how its gonna work out, or how I'm going to run it 100%). I don't think I'll necessarily charge $50, maybe $25 - $30. Do you think negotiating in a prince-range is ok?

 

[RealityOne]

How much would you guys say a Highschooler that is just starting out should charge (Birthday parties, gatherings, walk around)? I have some major opportunities, even thinking about going at a few for free to get my name out around the area.

My initial questions are: "How good are you?" and "How much performance experience do you have?" I've met 16 year olds that come across as well-mannered, polished, professional, personable and talented that could command $100 or more for a half hour performance.

My follow-up question is "Do you have enough material that has been developed into performance pieces?" By performance pieces, I mean is each routine sufficiently developed, scripted, practiced, rehearsed, performed and refined? Everything you perform should seem like you have been doing it for years... effortless in the sleights, handling and presentation. For walk around, you need nine to twelve performance pieces. For a parlor show (e.g. kids birthday party) you need around six to eight performance pieces.

Finally, you should not do a show the first time as a paid gig. Perform the entire show for family or a bunch of friends. Perform for audiences that wouldn't normally hire a magician (e.g. assisted living facility, Cub Scout den, your younger cousins, etc.) or even busking in a park. Get experience performing and experience performing your show.

 

[TylerScottIllusionist]

This is why I love Theory11. All the information here is a gold mine of knowledge and I think it's so interesting how unique our experiences are. I'm hoping to conduct some market research in the next month or so and I will definitely get back to you guys on all this. I thank you all for all of your extremely helpful and knowledgeable responses. I know that it's helping me and a lot of others that lack experience in this area for sure.

 

[Justin.Morris]

I don't know about some of those areas as I don't do kids magic or restaurant magic anymore, but I'm pretty open about my fees because I think it would have been super useful for me when I started.

Obviously all the caveats already mentioned apply, but these are my set fees as a part time professional with about 16 years of being a paid magician, in an area where magic is not a huge part of the area (but it's growing!)

For my stand up show (up to 500 people) is $600 for 45-60 minutes. ($300 for 30 minutes)

For my close up show, $300 for 30-40 minute show)

For walk around, I do $250 for the first hour, and $150 for each additional hour. (I'm very happy with this price point)