Reverse Engineering... Another Crazy Thought

[nexusmagic]

I still say that this whole debate could be avoided if the magic community didn't rely so heavily on other people to come up with ideas. I got sick of buying stuff and then saying "why didn't I think of that." So now I create my own junk, I have the satisfaction of saying "Yeah, yeah I created that." Plus this debate is two sided, there always has to be an independent.

 

[phrozunsun]

I find it hilarious that most people are on the fringes of the argument - either it's all bad or all good, but not too many are taking a balanced and rational approach like I mentioned earlier...

 

[chriswiehl]

If someone does some trick and you like what you see, then don't go and do the same trick. Just by watching you don't understand why the magician does what he does and your "improvings" may very likely just make the trick worse. So why would you want to steal other peoples material, rip it apart, and put together something lousy?

Just by changing things around you are not going to make anything better. I've seen many peoples' tricks butchered by these guys who think that they are improving something. Think about if for a second: a magician works on one of his tricks for ten years and decides to release it. Then some other magician who has been in magic for two years decides to buy the trick (or just steal it by watching a video) and thinks he knows better and starts to modify it - without seeing the creators original instructions. Which trick is going to be better?

Reading this thread made me sad. This is the exact reason why I stopped uploading my favourite effects. People will just steal them, leave out one sleight, and call them their own variations.

.

So, a talented musician creates a song and puts it on a record. A poor not-so-talented musician hears the song from a record he bought and figures that the song is easy to play and it still sounds awesome. Is it okay that the not-so-talented musician can play the song, make money with it, or even call it his own song just because he knows how to play the song?

Don't steal other peoples material.



No. There is no justification for this. Absolutely nothing makes sense here.

did i ever say anything about stealing and taking credit? this thread isnt about taking credit

 

[SHANE BLACK]

Nope,
You are not paying to perform the idea,
What you are paying for is the instruction and "advice" on the DVD, You cant sell ideas... only the container of ideas, eg,DVD, Book, CD
If I don't need to be taught something then why should I pay for the instruction?
For respect? Nah, Money does not equate respect at all.
Its not unethical to perform something you learned without buying either,

Do you pay a professor to apply the knowledge you learned to real life???
Or do you pay him to teach you something.?

Please, The Ishkabblible Sandwich is just a classic sandwich with a slightly modified way of revealing the card being "sandwiched".
Would you really cough up 10 dollars just to "use" that grip.
After seeing the performance all I had to do was slightly move the sandwich cards, I mean yeah Maybe I would not be using that technique but since I saw it and learned it I might as well use it. I didn't need to be taught how to perform it so I don't need to pay up.

Its kinda how you don't have to pay every time you sing a song you liked on the radio or every time you decide to do a dance move.

Thread by Wayne Houchin,as soon as I saw it I knew how to perform it and how to prepare it, that does not mean I actually perform it, And even if I did I would not pay for it Because I disrespect Wayne? because I don't appreciate the time he put into coming up with it???

Nope, because I don't need the instruction or the DVD which is what you are paying for.

Now about the "you learn more on DVD, you will have wrong method and perform it badly"" they have been working on it for 10 years" kind of comment.

The reason you dont buy it is because you have that down, If you don't know how to perform it then buy it.Me I dont copy presentations from anyone, I am not a clone I do my own stuff. I do the tricks but they are delivered in my way. And yes the method is a 100% correct otherwise it wouldn't work.

This is just me, You people don't have to be so peski about it.
Geez.
I don't believe people like Sinful, that say they would buy something for the reasons he gave, but If you want to cough up 50 dollars for something u know how to do then go for it.

Actually to reinerate I didn't say you where paying to learn the presentation to be a clone. You missed my point so go back re-read. I was getting at the little details to get maximum performance out of the routine that was created. If you know everything about someone elses routine just by watching a 30 sec. trailer wow, you are a true mentalist. You should teach me this trick.

 

[Dylan P.]

Dylan,

I know your post was not your thoughts exactly. I was addressing the concepts themselves and the direct opinions from other posters.


C

Oh. Sorry dude. My bad. Not trying to make enimies.

 

[SHANE BLACK]

I still say that this whole debate could be avoided if the magic community didn't rely so heavily on other people to come up with ideas. I got sick of buying stuff and then saying "why didn't I think of that." So now I create my own junk, I have the satisfaction of saying "Yeah, yeah I created that." Plus this debate is two sided, there always has to be an independent.

You shouldn't rely on others to create your own self. But without learning new things as well as old from others then your would just be claiming that you can do everything on your own and you can figure it out yourself. In that case there's no point for you to be part of the magic community since you know everything and you have nothing to else to learn. Not to say that thats how you are I'm merely just responded to your idea. Right?

 

[Dylan P.]

HEllo people!!!

I would like to make a brief statement or two regarding this thread. First off I would like to thank every single person who has contributed ANY idea to this thread. Second, the reason I created this thread was to spark debate and critical thinking amongst magicians and at that task I have succeeded without a doubt. Have I not?

The last statement I widsh to make is VERY important. I must remind everyone to keep the arguing and debating at a respectful level, and to treat each other well even if your opinions 100% contradict each other, okay? This forum is for magicians wanting to better themselves, no pointless arguing and hating on each other. So far nothing like this has happened, but I thought I should remind everyone and save the mods some trouble, as well as try and keep the thread alive and open to debate for alonger period of time.

Thank you,
Dylan P.

 

[Ineski]

did i ever say anything about stealing and taking credit? this thread isnt about taking credit

Nor is my post.

 

[nexusmagic]

Yes Shane thanks for the acknowledgment. Opinions change and mine is as well.

 

[Bruno19]

I just thought.
You can reverse engineere because you know some sleights and tecniques from other tricks that you alredy learned.
All of us reach a point were we can create, were we can figure it out.
But that especific trick can get someone atention, get someone started, and for them will be impossible to reverse engineere.

 

[adjones]

I just thought.
You can reverse engineere because you know some sleights and tecniques from other tricks that you alredy learned.
All of us reach a point were we can create, were we can figure it out.

Reverse engineering is NOT creating. It's figuring out somebody else's work and more than likely using it unethically.

 

[Dylan P.]

One more reminder, as it seems that debates are heating up into full fledged arguments. Please keep anything you say at a respectful level.

Dylan.

 

[SHANE BLACK]

One more reminder, as it seems that debates are heating up into full fledged arguments. Please keep anything you say at a respectful level.

Dylan.

Wow you seem to be real proud of yourself Dylan. Nice to know

 

[Bruno19]

Reverse engineering is NOT creating. It's figuring out somebody else's work and more than likely using it unethically.

Ididnt say that it was creating thats why i use an '','' to separate the two sentences.

 

[MitchellStafiej]

Reverse engineering is NOT creating. It's figuring out somebody else's work and more than likely using it unethically.

I see it as more of an insightful analysis.

Mitch

 

[Dylan P.]

Wow you seem to be real proud of yourself Dylan. Nice to know

Sorry??? I don't understand. Are you being sarcastic?

 

[adjones]

I see it as more of an insightful analysis.

Mitch

Depends on if you use the material you figure out or not.

 

[Nickerus]

Figuring it out isn't a problem, performing it is. I'm not going to say it's unethical or anything but you won't be performing at the level you could be. The artist who has worked a LONG time on their effect will give you so much insight into the effect that you can't get without buying the effect. Without that, and the tips they give you, your performance will suffer. So if you figure out an effect, you like it, and you want to perform it. BUY THE EFFECT. You owe it to yourself, the artist, and ultimatly your audience.

 

[SHANE BLACK]

Sorry??? I don't understand. Are you being sarcastic?

Yes Dylan I'm just messing with you. It's all good.

 

[chriswiehl]

Nor is my post.

So, a talented musician creates a song and puts it on a record. A poor not-so-talented musician hears the song from a record he bought and figures that the song is easy to play and it still sounds awesome. Is it okay that the not-so-talented musician can play the song, make money with it, or even call it his own song just because he knows how to play the song?

Don't steal other peoples material.