theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards
S.C.A.R.E.D Trick - By Tadiko
- Thread starter Tadiko
- Start date
scratch that
din noe that that was actually you performing
this is as good as this effect can get. haha
very nice
I honestly dont like this trick though
Although it is pretty clean and pretty impromptu, I dont find the effect as amazing.
nice vid though
Not to bash anyone or anything, because I actually know Jamie Daws, but I don't think this effect is that great. I had a discussion with another magician through email, actually another friend of Jamie's, and this was the discussion that we had...
My original email (the friend of Jamie asked me what I thought of the effect):
"I don't mean to bash or say anything negative, but this trick really isn't all that great. Think of it this way, the trick is not natural. There is no reason for the magicians hand to be placed on the deck while the deck is moving. It's suspicious and not magical at all. Quote from Jamie, "You ask the spectators to focus on your fingers and they will see NO movment from your hands or your fingers...", even so, it's still very suspicious. If your fingers aren't moving the deck, the spectator will think that your hand has nothing to do with the trick, then they will think, "Why have your hand on the deck at all?", which then leads to the thought of your hand having something to do with the moving. It doesn't make logical sense, doesn't seem magical, and it's just not that good. Although the old haunted deck isn't as easy to do, it still looks better and makes more magical sense and will seem more magical to your spectators. I consider this trick to be a dud but, maybe that is just my opinion."
Return email from Jamie's fried:
"I didn't want to be the first to say it, but, way to go Tyler, I had the same thought. Jamie sent me my free copy of this, and I didn't want to come out and say it, but I wasn't that impressed. I mean, it's okay, but it certainly isn't worth all the hype that is being made about it. Tyler, your observation about it making magical sense is spot-on. Also, although this shouldn't detract from the effect itself, the manuscript is full of spelling errors and grammatical mistakes. The other problem is that you can't print it out. Printing is disabled. I rarely have time to sit in front of a computer and learn magic AND it's password protected. I have no idea where I've put the password, but I don't need it anyway. I'll never use this."
I kept the name of the friend out to protect him. Anyway, now you know my opinion. To each his own.
Peace!
Tyler
My original email (the friend of Jamie asked me what I thought of the effect):
"I don't mean to bash or say anything negative, but this trick really isn't all that great. Think of it this way, the trick is not natural. There is no reason for the magicians hand to be placed on the deck while the deck is moving. It's suspicious and not magical at all. Quote from Jamie, "You ask the spectators to focus on your fingers and they will see NO movment from your hands or your fingers...", even so, it's still very suspicious. If your fingers aren't moving the deck, the spectator will think that your hand has nothing to do with the trick, then they will think, "Why have your hand on the deck at all?", which then leads to the thought of your hand having something to do with the moving. It doesn't make logical sense, doesn't seem magical, and it's just not that good. Although the old haunted deck isn't as easy to do, it still looks better and makes more magical sense and will seem more magical to your spectators. I consider this trick to be a dud but, maybe that is just my opinion."
Return email from Jamie's fried:
"I didn't want to be the first to say it, but, way to go Tyler, I had the same thought. Jamie sent me my free copy of this, and I didn't want to come out and say it, but I wasn't that impressed. I mean, it's okay, but it certainly isn't worth all the hype that is being made about it. Tyler, your observation about it making magical sense is spot-on. Also, although this shouldn't detract from the effect itself, the manuscript is full of spelling errors and grammatical mistakes. The other problem is that you can't print it out. Printing is disabled. I rarely have time to sit in front of a computer and learn magic AND it's password protected. I have no idea where I've put the password, but I don't need it anyway. I'll never use this."
I kept the name of the friend out to protect him. Anyway, now you know my opinion. To each his own.
Peace!Tyler
Heya Guys,
Thoguht I would drop in.
I'm not sure who these "Freinds" of mine are but that's fine.
Unfortunatly people have been misunderstanding the reasons of this effect. It's not meant to be the most visual version fo the haunted deck nor is it by all means "The best" method. The reason for it's existence is it's un- gimmicked qualities although being practically impromtue.
Unfortunatly, there are magicians (which have been proven here on this thread) who wish not to invest creative time within an effect. There have been many versions of the pioviting card techneque to achieve the haunted deck effect. The fact that you have to touch the deck shouldn't matter providing you have the creative capabilities to invenst a little bit of imaginination into the effect.
If your car breaks down, do you get out of the car and walk away from it or do you try and figure out what is wrong with it in order to get it working?
This is the case. If your not happy with an aspect of an effect, then at least find the fault and change it. I have included a few patter suggestions for the touching of the deck but to be honest, it's not hard to win people over with it. When i don't have my loops with me, I instantly used S.C--A.R-E.D and have for a while. I have never found any issues with making up an exciting story for the touching of the deck. If people are unable to find other patter lines then there is a forum where people can get more suggestions from other magicians using it.
The forum is: www.streetsleights.co.uk
Just to conclude. I and many of my proffessional working freinds in the magic field use this when they need to. It's not there to be used as your first version fot he haunted deck, but it is a very strong version to be used when you need it. And sometimes you will need it. If so many fine magicians such as Cameron Francis and Alan Rorrison can use S.C-A.R-E.D and have no problems with any aspect of the effect, then perhaps you should look over your presentation.
Best wishes,
Hope everyones Christmas plans are going well,
Jamie Daws
Thoguht I would drop in.
I'm not sure who these "Freinds" of mine are but that's fine.
Unfortunatly people have been misunderstanding the reasons of this effect. It's not meant to be the most visual version fo the haunted deck nor is it by all means "The best" method. The reason for it's existence is it's un- gimmicked qualities although being practically impromtue.
Unfortunatly, there are magicians (which have been proven here on this thread) who wish not to invest creative time within an effect. There have been many versions of the pioviting card techneque to achieve the haunted deck effect. The fact that you have to touch the deck shouldn't matter providing you have the creative capabilities to invenst a little bit of imaginination into the effect.
If your car breaks down, do you get out of the car and walk away from it or do you try and figure out what is wrong with it in order to get it working?
This is the case. If your not happy with an aspect of an effect, then at least find the fault and change it. I have included a few patter suggestions for the touching of the deck but to be honest, it's not hard to win people over with it. When i don't have my loops with me, I instantly used S.C--A.R-E.D and have for a while. I have never found any issues with making up an exciting story for the touching of the deck. If people are unable to find other patter lines then there is a forum where people can get more suggestions from other magicians using it.
The forum is: www.streetsleights.co.uk
Just to conclude. I and many of my proffessional working freinds in the magic field use this when they need to. It's not there to be used as your first version fot he haunted deck, but it is a very strong version to be used when you need it. And sometimes you will need it. If so many fine magicians such as Cameron Francis and Alan Rorrison can use S.C-A.R-E.D and have no problems with any aspect of the effect, then perhaps you should look over your presentation.
Best wishes,
Hope everyones Christmas plans are going well,
Jamie Daws
Jamie Daws said:
Here is a wonderful quote from Derren Brown about useless moves and unnatural movements and actions in magic (i.e. having your hand on the deck when performing S.C.A.R.E.D. as the cards move). Derren is using a trick where a magician pulls out a coin, places it onto a table, and then picks it back up again to vanish it. Here's the quote:
Derren Brown said:
On a side note, before I continue, that book is a great read for anyone interested in presentation. Also, it seems like I do put a great deal of time into my presentation, considering I have read many books about presentation and I work on my presentation constantly. Jamie threw out Cameron Francis and Alan Rorrison, but I threw out Derren Brown. (lol)
Anyway, having your hand on the deck when it's moving is unnatural. There really is no reason for it, even if you try to give a reason. Once you place your hand on the deck, the spectators are suspicious, and they have the right to be.
I don't see why you would want to perform something not as good as the original haunted deck, and if your in a situation where you can't perform the original haunted deck, then go with another completely different trick that works better and has more naturalness to it. Naturalness convinces spectators, where as suspicious and unnatural actions bring forth suspicion and therefore lower impact. Rather than going to something below par (S.C.A.R.E.D.), that in the spectators mind makes no sense at all, go to another trick. Go to a harder-hitting more natural trick that will just work better all together.
That's really all I have to say concerning the presentation and unnaturalness of the effect. But, I would like to also state to Jamie, I still consider you a great magician (since I do know you). This just isn't a great effect man. I have enjoyed your other material although. Please do not take me not liking this effect as a personal attack.
Peace!Tyler
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heya,
Funny you should mention Derren Brwon. I am great freinds with mr Browns good freind Angelo Carbone who also uses S.C-A.R-E.D. Derren is from my home town and Is my favourate performing magician and influence. Good boy for quoteing him, good choice.
I completely understand what you are saying but at the same time your missing the point. If you place a coin down then pick it back up again, that is a suspitious and pointless action. With S.C-A.R-E.D as long as you have a good presentational patter, it really doesnt matter. I suggest you audience test this with a good patter line. Don't just try it on one or two people, do it on a good bunch to get mixed reviews. Indeed some will be more unimpressed then others but thats the same will all magic. I have used this for a long time and to this day have never had anyone suspect my hand on the side because my hand is doing nothing.
When you have a thumb tip on, you show your other hand empty and push a silk into it. Then you close your hand around it and it's gone. That silk has gone into your hand and yet why does no body suspect you have a fake thumb on your hand? Because it cant be seen. It's the same here, They cant see anything going on so why should they suspect it. As long as you give a good patter and a good reasoning for the hand at the side of the deck then they wont have a problem. I urge you to stop thinking like a magician with this one and think about it from an audience point of view.
They have a story - A reason for holding the side of the deck - they see no movement from your hand BUT they see movement from the deck.
The reason i came up with this version is exactly that. On holiday one year, i became freinds with a couple who owned a bar over there who had seen my video's on youtube. They asked to see a trick. I had little more then a deck of cards. After a nights magic, i really felt i wish i could do a mentalims trick in which i could make something move. Then i thought what better then a Haunted Deck. But i didnt have my "Spirit" gimmick and had nothing to make one with. After a day or two thinking of different methods, S.C-A.R-E.D was made. After that one perfrormance, they insisted i come back next year and offered an endorsment for my website.
Never underestimate an effect intill you have used it in full.
Due to other things that have happened and people being completely misinformed of my intentions in regards to a well known forum, There are alot of people who are trying to make life hard for me, so unfortuatly Tyler, Im on the fence as to weither your intentions are good or bad. But that is a whole nother topic.
Best Wishes all,
Jamie Daws
Funny you should mention Derren Brwon. I am great freinds with mr Browns good freind Angelo Carbone who also uses S.C-A.R-E.D. Derren is from my home town and Is my favourate performing magician and influence. Good boy for quoteing him, good choice.
I completely understand what you are saying but at the same time your missing the point. If you place a coin down then pick it back up again, that is a suspitious and pointless action. With S.C-A.R-E.D as long as you have a good presentational patter, it really doesnt matter. I suggest you audience test this with a good patter line. Don't just try it on one or two people, do it on a good bunch to get mixed reviews. Indeed some will be more unimpressed then others but thats the same will all magic. I have used this for a long time and to this day have never had anyone suspect my hand on the side because my hand is doing nothing.
When you have a thumb tip on, you show your other hand empty and push a silk into it. Then you close your hand around it and it's gone. That silk has gone into your hand and yet why does no body suspect you have a fake thumb on your hand? Because it cant be seen. It's the same here, They cant see anything going on so why should they suspect it. As long as you give a good patter and a good reasoning for the hand at the side of the deck then they wont have a problem. I urge you to stop thinking like a magician with this one and think about it from an audience point of view.
They have a story - A reason for holding the side of the deck - they see no movement from your hand BUT they see movement from the deck.
The reason i came up with this version is exactly that. On holiday one year, i became freinds with a couple who owned a bar over there who had seen my video's on youtube. They asked to see a trick. I had little more then a deck of cards. After a nights magic, i really felt i wish i could do a mentalims trick in which i could make something move. Then i thought what better then a Haunted Deck. But i didnt have my "Spirit" gimmick and had nothing to make one with. After a day or two thinking of different methods, S.C-A.R-E.D was made. After that one perfrormance, they insisted i come back next year and offered an endorsment for my website.
Never underestimate an effect intill you have used it in full.
Due to other things that have happened and people being completely misinformed of my intentions in regards to a well known forum, There are alot of people who are trying to make life hard for me, so unfortuatly Tyler, Im on the fence as to weither your intentions are good or bad. But that is a whole nother topic.
Best Wishes all,
Jamie Daws
Firstly Jamie, my intentions are not bad. I was being sincere when I said I enjoy your other effects and think you are a great magician. I am in no way trying to make life hard for you at all, I really don't want to do that. In fact, I would recommend (after watching your videos on your website), many of your effects to other people, since I know you almost always offer workable material. S.C.A.R.E.D. is the only effect I have a problem with, because it's unnatural. I think many young magicians are being influenced by this, not just by your trick but by many others. My intentions are to inform them of the correct way to perform and present magic, since we are actors playing the part of the magician.
Actually, I don't think you understand the point I'm making, so I wrote an article about it. I'm going to post the article and you should read it, because it really explains the reason why S.C.A.R.E.D. is unnatural.
Jamie, this is comparing apples and oranges. With a thumb tip the action of disappearing the silk happens before it actually disappears. Nothing unnatural goes on. The action of showing your hands completely empty convinces the spectator that everything is normal and what you just did was a miracle. With S.C.A.R.E.D. your hand is on the deck when it's moving. Well, I don't have time to write up a point I made in my article (which I'm sorry, I had to use S.C.A.R.E.D. as a negative example in), so just read my article which will be posted here. It will be entitled Unnaturalness vs. Naturalness.
Once again Jamie, I hate having to say that I don't like the effect. Some friends of yours are friends of mine as well (people that left the forum mentioned before because they were leaving with you). I don't like to bring down another magicians business, but I also feel like I must bring the art out of it's unnatural state at the moment and back to it's natural state. Peace!
Tyler
Actually, I don't think you understand the point I'm making, so I wrote an article about it. I'm going to post the article and you should read it, because it really explains the reason why S.C.A.R.E.D. is unnatural.
Jamie, this is comparing apples and oranges. With a thumb tip the action of disappearing the silk happens before it actually disappears. Nothing unnatural goes on. The action of showing your hands completely empty convinces the spectator that everything is normal and what you just did was a miracle. With S.C.A.R.E.D. your hand is on the deck when it's moving. Well, I don't have time to write up a point I made in my article (which I'm sorry, I had to use S.C.A.R.E.D. as a negative example in), so just read my article which will be posted here. It will be entitled Unnaturalness vs. Naturalness.
Once again Jamie, I hate having to say that I don't like the effect. Some friends of yours are friends of mine as well (people that left the forum mentioned before because they were leaving with you). I don't like to bring down another magicians business, but I also feel like I must bring the art out of it's unnatural state at the moment and back to it's natural state. Peace!
Tyler
Each to there own. I don't expect everyone to enjoy the effect obviously. However, without ever audience testing it to a good degree, i'm afraid i have no sympathy in your argument.
I respect magician who give there own personal experiances of things as apposed to magicians who look at something and judge it.
I'll look forward to your essay on "Naturalness vs Unnaturalness" and once again reading how you dislike my effect.
Best Wishes in the future,
Jamie Daws
I respect magician who give there own personal experiances of things as apposed to magicians who look at something and judge it.
I'll look forward to your essay on "Naturalness vs Unnaturalness" and once again reading how you dislike my effect.
Best Wishes in the future,
Jamie Daws
I don't see why there is such a big issue with holding the deck. Actually, I think it's almost nit-picking at the effect. Holding the deck should not be a problem at all. Normal, willing spectators will not ask about it if no attention is called to it. If you are asked, then have something prepared, I'm sure it's not incredibly hard for you to think up some patter or reasoning behind holding the deck.
Maybe you could (in a very tounge in cheek fashion, ala the ID) take an invisible peice of string and wrap it around the deck, hold it in place whilst the spectator pulls on the other end and watch the deck magical split on its own, cutting perfectly to a previously selected card.
Just thinking out loud really, but surely its good to turn a potential and very minor negative, into a fun positive.
Maybe you could (in a very tounge in cheek fashion, ala the ID) take an invisible peice of string and wrap it around the deck, hold it in place whilst the spectator pulls on the other end and watch the deck magical split on its own, cutting perfectly to a previously selected card.
Just thinking out loud really, but surely its good to turn a potential and very minor negative, into a fun positive.
From my personal preference I'm not fond of the trick, though only seeing this performance of it I can't particularly tell. However; I've never been a big fan of haunted deck effects. Then again, Jamie after hearing that this is a un-gimmicked Impromptu haunted deck I feel as though it's something I need to look into.
To be honest, the first thing I thought when I saw the video was 'What is that hand doing, the one holding the deck?' I was immediately suspicious, and whilst the effect still fooled me, I knew it wasn't magic. Sorry, I'm with Tyler on this one.
Exactly my thoughts and the thoughts of the many spectators/testers I perform for when practicing an effect.
Jamie Daws said:
It is my own personal opinion. But, to each his own. I don't think it's good for anyone to use, but if they want to use it they can go right ahead. It's fine with me.
Jamie Daws said:
Also, I have audience tested it, a lot. And I even asked their opinion of the effect. They found it impressive that the deck was moving, but it was not magical to them in the least bit. They saw it more as a puzzle than magic. Peace!
Tyler
Heya,
Just after christmas, im planning on doing a couple of shoots in London of s.c.a.r.e.d, Delusioned and a few others that are on m site. I'll post up the audience reactions that im getting with s.c.a.r.e.d so you can see first hand the reactions you can recieve with it. But, far as im concerned, not every effect is for every person. I've had a hue amount of positive feedback and like Tyler says, some negaive. But somtimes, theres no pleasing everyone.
Beast wishes,
Everyone have a fantastic christmas,
Jamie Daws
Just after christmas, im planning on doing a couple of shoots in London of s.c.a.r.e.d, Delusioned and a few others that are on m site. I'll post up the audience reactions that im getting with s.c.a.r.e.d so you can see first hand the reactions you can recieve with it. But, far as im concerned, not every effect is for every person. I've had a hue amount of positive feedback and like Tyler says, some negaive. But somtimes, theres no pleasing everyone.
Beast wishes,
Everyone have a fantastic christmas,
Jamie Daws