Smoke & Mirrors : A Cordial Invitation :: Friday, Aug. 1

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by j.bayme, Jul 28, 2008.

  1. Awww yeah... mine are on the way too... along with Guardians, Centurions, 1 of each color of split spades :D:D

    Will be my first time handling T11 cardz. :rolleyes:

    I originally wanted to order them from Dananddave's site, since they accept paypal, but damn their site was so slow at the time :mad:

    Honestly, I like bikes, but I'm tired of looking at that silly pattern on the back. For a spec, it might not matter, but I don't do magic for the specs, I do it for me. And I like fancy shmancy cards :p
     
  2. I honestly don't know if I'll be ordering these. I LOVE the art for the Jokers and the ace of spades, but the back art kinda turns me off. How do they handle compared to other T11 or Ellusionist decks...or any other deck in general?
     
  3. #343 JetEyeNight, Aug 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2008

    i use blue and red bikes.. nothing else, never bought any "special" decks and until i get my own design printed i probably wont , why would you.. you can get a 2 pack at walmart for $4.75 no shipping no waiting work great for anything.... and for the majority of the memebers here, more money that stays in your college fund...


    You can get 12 decks of Bicycle for $13 at Costco as well, however this is minimums mentality. Many people want luxury, and are willing to pay for it. They aren't going to go with whatever is the cheapest. Just because regular bikes serve their purpose, doesn't mean everybody is going to buy them. Many people will pay the extra money, to represent themselves. If you like using regular bikes, that probably suits you... a regular Joe, probably wears blue jeans and a t-shirt. If that's your personality, great. For those who prefer a more custom/designer look, they might go with the D&Ds, it probably fits their personality, they might be more suited for Armani or something a little more luxurious.

    I personally love these cards, they are very classy. I don't mind the big D's on the cards, I think it looks great. This is Dan and Dave's personality. If you don't like these cards, these might not be for you, perhaps are not suited for your personality. This doesn't mean the cards are bad. Not everything can be suited for everyone. I'm not sure what you were expecting. Is it really that big of a suprise that they would put their logo on THEIR cards? It's called brand recognition. I don't see anyone complaining about Wynns or Jerrys. Some people like Black Tigers, some don't, some people like Centurions some people don't, some people like Wynns, some don't. It's called preference. If you don't prefer these, don't say it's an EPIC FAILURE. Just say they aren't for you. This isn't a let down. They just released something that wasn't suited for your style. They are classy guys, and like classy things.
     
  4. I beg to differ, the regular Joe stereotype only works to magicians, bicycle cards may be the 'standard' magic cards but laymen don't know that, and bicycles have a very nice design.
     
  5. #345 JetEyeNight, Aug 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2008
    I'm not talking about how laymen perceive us, I'm talking about how we perceive ourselves, and how we choose to present ourselves. It's a personal decision.

    If you think standard bikes are great, that's awesome. They are awesome cards. However compared to other cards they are actually very standard. Think if it this way, wrangler jeans (perfectly functional) or an Armani suit. To laymen it might not make a difference. It's all how you wish to present yourself and the audience you wish to associate with.
     
  6. I think bikes are more similar to an armani suit than S&M, although they are both way off...
     
  7. Yes, obviously bikes are more like Armani because bicycle have jokers with a guy in top hat...
     
  8. No because bikes have an elegant back design, while S&M has 2 massive D's and some vectors.
     
  9. #349 JetEyeNight, Aug 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2008
    I guess Dave and Dan and I are looking at something different. I think the Ds are alot more elegant and appealing than the old fashioned bikes, with fat, cheesy angels in the 4 corners and 2 fat cheesy angels riding old fashioned cheesy bikes in the middle.
     
  10. Well that's your opinion, and mines different, yay for us.
     
  11. How come no one *****es about the two W's wynns?
     
  12. There's a difference between elegance and extravagance. D&Ds S&Ms are elegant, while bikes are extravagant.

    Yay! I'm not one of the sheep who latch onto the "big Ds in the middle" argument. It's not what the kiddies were looking for so immediately they all start clinging onto the same argument, bashing the cards.

    The Ds look good, absolutely nothing wrong with them. The Ws on Wynns look good, the Jerrys on Jerrys look good.

    It's all about preference and if you don't prefer them, that's just fine. But let's not bash the cards saying that "Oh my God! Dave and Dan messed up!" I respect the fact that they were true to themselves rather than selling out to what the masses want. I like unique and S&Ms are unique. This is more D&Ds style than anything else.
     
  13. I fail to see how if you don't like the cards, you're a "kiddy"... Apparently you see your opinion as fact and anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "sheep".

    You can't compare those cards. The "Jerry's" on the Jerry Nugget are a very minor part of the card and you'd really have to study it in order to find "Jerry's" written on it. The W's on the Wynns barely look like W's. You can clearly see the 2 D's.

    So now you're saying we're allowed to have an opnion, but can only voice it if it's the same as yours?
     
  14. #354 JetEyeNight, Aug 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2008
    You are really excellent at taking words out of context and putting words into one's mouth. This post was clearly aimed at ElisG. If you were following the thread, you might have noticed that.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JetEyeNight
    Yay! I'm not one of the sheep who latch onto the "big Ds in the middle" argument. It's not what the kiddies were looking for so immediately they all start clinging onto the same argument, bashing the cards.

    I fail to see how if you don't like the cards, you're a "kiddy"... Apparently you see your opinion as fact and anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "sheep".


    Nowhere did I say if you didn't like the cards, you're a kiddy. Obviously this is clearly NOT a deck suited towards kids, thus kids were disappointed. Sure some adults may have been dissappointed, but that comment was aimed at kids. There's a lot of kids being the typical copycat, using the same "big Ds" argument just to bash the cards, that makes you a kiddy. And if you're an adult making this complaint, are you serious??

    Also, nowhere did I state anyone who doesn't agree with me is a sheep. Anybody who follows a shepard is a sheep. The shepard in this case stated the argument about the big Ds, and there are plently of "sheep" following that argument just to bash the cards.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JetEyeNight
    The Ds look good, absolutely nothing wrong with them. The Ws on Wynns look good, the Jerrys on Jerrys look good.

    You can't compare those cards. The "Jerry's" on the Jerry Nugget are a very minor part of the card and you'd really have to study it in order to find "Jerry's" written on it. The W's on the Wynns barely look like W's. You can clearly see the 2 D's.


    Of course you can compare these cards! All of them have had tons of hype surrounding them. You definitely do not need to study Nuggets to find "Jerry's". It's right there dude. The W clearly looks like a W on Wynns. The design could also be compared to a clam shell. Are you saying you like the clam shell design better than the smoke and mirrors deck?

    The D has a mirror image, hence the name Mirrors. The rest of the design is swirls of smoke hence the name Smoke. What did people not get about "Smoke" and "Mirrors"? What did people not understand about the "Cordial Invitation"? Obviously the cards were going to be a smoke and mirror theme, and obviously they were going to have a cordial or elegant look. These are Dave and Dan's cards, did anyone expect them NOT to have their logo on it? Seriously it looks fine.

    ALSO the Ds look like 2 mirrors facing each other. Did anyone else notice this??


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JetEyeNight
    It's all about preference and if you don't prefer them, that's just fine. But let's not bash the cards saying that "Oh my God! Dave and Dan messed up!" I respect the fact that they were true to themselves rather than selling out to what the masses want. I like unique and S&Ms are unique. This is more D&Ds style than anything else.

    So now you're saying we're allowed to have an opnion, but can only voice it if it's the same as yours?


    How your comment relates to that quote, I will never know. WHERE did I say you couldn't have an opinion? And where did I say you could only voice it if it were the same as mine? That's right, never....I said don't pointless bash the cards in hope that D&D will elease new cards...it won't work. If you're going to point out negatives about the design, back it up with intelligent thought. Please don't rehash the same argument over and over again. List reasons why you don't like the design. Quit rehashing the "big Ds" argument. It just doesn't hold water. Brands and logos on cards have never been an issue in the past, let's not make it one now. Have some original thought, don't be a sheep. Get it?? Have something of value to add to the discussion or don't add anything at all.
    __________________
     
  15. So you're saying that the Double D's arguement holds no water because a lot of people have the same opinion? I don't know how long you've been around the forums but if you've been around for a little while you should know no one looks for an excuse just to bash Dan and Dave. There are 10 times as many fanboys as there are haterz :)rolleyes:)
    I'll give you they all have a lot of hype around them but that's about it. Come on, if you're glancing at a JN card the first thing that pops out at you will be the tower, not "Jerry's" written fairly small at the top of each one. And I had no idea until recently those things on the Wynn cards were supposed to be W's, I just thought they were the Casino's logo. And yes I like a "clam shell" deck better than the holy Smoke and Mirrors.
    They could have mirrored a lot of different images, it didn't have to be their logo. And I think if people expected their logo would be smack-dab in the middle of the card the criticism about it wouldn't have been so harsh. And I don't know what makes you so much better than everyone else to declare they're fine. It's your opinion, and everyone else is entitled to one too.
    Well in your first paragraph it sure sounded like that if your opinion was you didn't like the Double D's you were a copy-cat kiddy. You, the holy master of the cards, declared that you're not allowed to bash Smoke and Mirrors. Maybe it hasn't occured to you that people might just not like the cards and not have any other alterior motives behind their "bashing". People don't pointlessly bash Dan and Dave. There is more blind fanboyism. And on the rare occasions that logos were plastered over cards, they were at least interesting. Those two D's looked like they came straight outta times new roman font.
     
  16. #356 JetEyeNight, Aug 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2008
    Why do you not find the Ds interesting? The Ds have a double meaning, not only stand for Dan and Dave but the Ds are actually meant to represent 2 old fashioned mirrors magicians used to use on stage standing in front of each other. They have a double meaning. It's not like they just slapped their logo on it. Where do you think they came up with the idea? They're mirroring mirrors, not just a D! That's why it's frustrating me. Am I the only one who notices and understands that the Ds are supposed to also be mirrors?
     
  17. JetEyeNight you are right! From the beginning of the topic everybody only said about the 2D (that are actually mirrors) in the middle of the card. Nobody said anything about the quality of the cards!
    And by the way nobody is forcing you to buy the cards! If you don't like them, don't buy them! But if you didn't bought the cards i think that you don't have the right to say: "they suck!" because there was a lot of work and hours put into these cards, and in my opinion they look great!
    To conclude: If u don't like the cards don't buy them and stop inventing negative aspects of the cards!
    PS: i am sorry for the grammar mistakes...if there are any:)
     
  18. No, I didn't see that, but that's cool.

    Look, I think both JetEyeNight and dragon521 have some good points. In terms of the aesthetics of the D's, I like them. Still, some people just don't like them, like Dragon, and that's cool, that's his opinion. Keep in mind too that the general opinion so far of the received S&M's are that they look better in person, and suddenly the tide has gone the other way, so wait till you see them yourself - but I won't argue against Dragon in that some people just don't like them, and that's cool. And keeping in mind, that really, the D's are the single biggest reason people don't like them.

    Just because you agree with popular consensus doesn't make you a sheep. And just because the deck isn't suited for kids doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't like them is also a kid. Take a barbie doll. Boys, generally, don't like barbie dolls. But if someone doesn't like a barbie doll, that doesn't necessarily make them a boy as well, that logic is flawed.

    On the other hand, Jet has a good point - these decks aren't for kids. The year olds on YouTube would look silly with this style of back. I've made my point several times on this issue about appreciating elegance, so I won't repeat myself. But along the same lines Jet, you're right, most people won't notice/appreciate the double meaning, if that was in fact intended, but if it was, most people won't be able to look past the DD's. I do agree with Jet in that these decks will look terrible in some hands.

    I can't be bothered addressing the rest of your respective posts but you both have good points which stand, in my opinion.

    Peace
     
  19. This may be sort of off topic but, even though my icon is a Wynn logo, I stil don't see any "W" in the logo!?
     
  20. lol good one.
     

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