Some Thoughts On Magic Theory

[Keith Brown]

"It's different performing for magicians." - CDarklock


Yeah it is different performing for magicians but honestly I think that if you are always to perform magic for magicians you're boat is setting sail down the wrong river.

1. Can you make a living performing for magicians? (This may not be your goal)
2. How often do you perform for magicians? Can you regularly perform for them?
3. Your magic should be directed towards laymen because that's who is going to be seeing it. I realize that we are analyzing the material and to do so the product, in this case the effect, needs to be the same for the magicians as the laymen. There should be no difference in what the laymen saw when you performed it for him and when you performed it again for me another time.

4. Magicians think and analyze magic differently from laymen.
5. Magic for magicians have confusing, ridiculous, over handled, and contrived plots and I think if you performed these effects for a laymen it wouldn't go over well at all.

I am putting some of these examples to the extreme. If you really want to improve your magic, understand it. Read Designing Miracles by Darwin Ortiz.

Also the whole dynamic is different performing for magicians because they don't use common sense to piece an effect together, they think of the moves they know fill in the blanks. Just because they do this doesn't mean you have to not but on a performance and "act". You are a magician.

Goal 1: To Fool
Goal 2: Be entertaining

Just because you may have some technical backround isn't an excuse for me not to perform the effect the way it should be. So Krass should do a pitiful, monotone and boring presentation of the patter because you know the technique involved? You shouldn't focus SOLELY on the technique, that isn't what makes an effect great. It is PART of what makes an effect great and you can't have chocolate chips cookies with out the chocolate chips. Presentation, in this case the chocolate chips, are needed to make a cookie or an effect great.

If Micheal didn't talk, you wouldn't know why the other cards are there and their importance. You would have to really think and concentrate on what the hell is going on. This effect needs a story or a presentation behind it to make it understandable and clear what the effect is and to make it entertaining. The harder you make the audience think the harder it is to produce a good effect.

Personally I would like to hear from Micheal on this one because he is the one that made the video.

This is the effect from HIS point of view and the AUDIENCE (Laymen) point of view can be seen as the follows.

Micheal Krass:

"Ok so show the reveal of his card yatta yatta yatta, the trick isn't done gotta show the second climax"

Audience:

"Woah a card shot out of the deck and it's mine! That's amazing! whhhhhhhhhhat?! how did those other cards flip over?!?!"

Since Krass is performing he knows that there is two climaxes. He knows after the card pops out of the deck that the others have righted themselves. But the audience has never seen this before. Once they see a card shoot out, it's mysterious to them. How did that happen? What card is that? And if the performer isn't amazed and think that isn't impressive or showing that "HEY LOOK AT THIS! THIS IS AMAZING! BE AMAZED! I JUST DID SOMETHING AWESOME!" mentality the audience won't perceive it the way it should be. Then comes the second or kicker climax. They don't expect this to come. So it has an even harder impact.

During a climax the mystery, the suspense, the wonder, etc is suppose to maximize. That's why it's called a climax. The effect or the story is at it's peak and causes these emotions to come out and it's wonderful, it's the best part.

Your presentation needs to reinforce this. So if a card shoots out and you dismiss it as nothing you clearly didn't do this. But if you build up some anticipation and you are impressed and you are amazed yourself that this card shot out , cause hey how often do you see cards shoot out the deck? Especially if it's your card? Then you did your job.

Every trick is like a story. It has a start or an introduction, it has a problem/plot and it has a solution/conclusion. You could consider a kicker as the prologue lets say. So if you go from the introduction to the plot, skip through the conclusion you don't have a story.

Go in order. Not straight to the most impressive things. The second climax may make you feel good inside cause it's better than the first and makes you eager to show it, but calm yourself. The second climax comes after the first and if you treat the first without any build up the second becomes the first. Maximize the effect and the mystery in performing.

The other good thing about this effect is that the kicker is more impressive than the first. To me it appears this way, probably because more cards are involved. If you have a kicker that's weaker than the initial or primary climax then it won't look nearly as good.

All of these words are opinion based and come from my personal experience, I am not saying this is the right way. I am just trying to give useful advice because I know it works.


Keith

 

[CDarklock]

it is different performing for magicians but honestly I think that if you are always to perform magic for magicians you're boat is setting sail down the wrong river.

I beg to differ.

If you cannot confidently perform the trick you are about to perform for an audience of magicians, you have no business performing it at all for anyone but an audience of magicians.

See, when you flub up your trick and flash the palmed card for magicians, one of them will point and say "flash". Then you can say "oh crap, really?" and learn how to fix it. You've got other magicians right there ready to help you.

And if you're unwilling to perform for magicians, remember: we look just like everyone else. You never know. We might be in your audience at any time.

Which, like your own perspective, is just my two cents. There are about as many different views on how one should or shouldn't perform magic as there are magicians. Maybe more. Sure, I like my two cents; it's mine. But it's still just two cents.

 

[Michael Kras]

Very thorough and valid points you have made. I admit I did not quite follow my own thoughts in this particular video because, quite simply, it's hard to act enthusiastic when performing for a digital camera. Also, there's nobody there to influence the particular factor that I incorporate into most climaxes. Just performing for the camera is a bit different and I do not feel the need to use the powerful presentation I typically use.

I've performed terrible effects and made them much stronger just because of presentation. Remember the cheesy old Coin Through Hanky? I use that daily and merit great reactions.

 

[CDarklock]

Remember the cheesy old Coin Through Hanky?

LOL... we were using that at my last magic club meeting as an example of a trick everybody knows, but that you can still dress up and use to great effect. More power to you, man; your head certainly seems to be in the right place.

 

[Keith Brown]

Ok, well you are performing magic for magicians for different reasons. In the case you are describing to me the performer is new to magic. If he doesn't have the experience or technique to bear in front of laymen he should be practicing instead of performing. He hasn't accomplished the first goal in magic: to fool. If you don't fool you aren't doing magic and just wasting your time.

Again magicians are looking for different things and think about magic different then laymen. Not everyone has a group of magicians equal or higher skilled then they are to hang out and show things to.

Yes we do look the same as laymen and could very easily be in a crowd of laymen but during one of those performances when is a magician going to say "dude you flashed you bottom palm"? If they did that, you're a dick.
But your magic should be directed towards a laymen. Magicians will still see it and think differently because they are magicians but it is meant for laymen to see and be entertained by.

When magicians should do that is in a circle of magicians just jamming. Also I am not talking about the technique of a trick but presentation in this case.

I am not saying don't perform for magicians, you should perform almost every instant you get because it is opportunity for improvement. What I am saying is the difference of what a magician and a laymen sees and you should realize that in performing/creating magic.

And I can also see how performing for a video camera is boring and doesn't bring out the energy but those are some thoughts to think of.

 

[CDarklock]

In the case you are describing to me the performer is new to magic.

No, he's not. Every performer, regardless of skill or experience, should be every bit as confident performing before an audience of magicians as he is before an audience of laymen - or his performance is necessarily not ready.

What I am saying is the difference of what a magician and a laymen sees and you should realize that in performing/creating magic.

I agree. That's why I believe you should have special tricks you only perform for magicians - tricks that laymen, by definition, are simply unable to appreciate. Things like a coin trick where you're "obviously" using a thumb clip, only then you do something that you can't do if you're using a thumb clip. The audience simply can't appreciate it unless they know what a thumb clip is and why you can't do that along with a thumb clip.

But there should be no such thing as a trick you can only perform for a lay audience. It's disrespectful. It insults their intelligence.

 

[Keith Brown]

No, he's not. Every performer, regardless of skill or experience, should be every bit as confident performing before an audience of magicians as he is before an audience of laymen - or his performance is necessarily not ready.

So you just described a magician who is not yet developed as a performer? Unless I misinterpreted your words? And someone new to magic is an undeveloped magician who needs to learn the basics? Aren't those the same thing?

I agree. That's why I believe you should have special tricks you only perform for magicians - tricks that laymen, by definition, are simply unable to appreciate. Things like a coin trick where you're "obviously" using a thumb clip, only then you do something that you can't do if you're using a thumb clip. The audience simply can't appreciate it unless they know what a thumb clip is and why you can't do that along with a thumb clip.

But there should be no such thing as a trick you can only perform for a lay audience. It's disrespectful. It insults their intelligence.

Ok I do agree there are tricks specified for magicians. For laymen to appreciate them you would have to teach them the thumb clip and how you couldn't use it for that trick/why it is impressive.

There are no such things as tricks you can only for laymen. There is nothing that prevents you from performing them for whoever the hell you feel like showing, including magicians. But isn't have tricks only performed for magicians excluding laymen? and isn't that insulting their intelligence because they don't have the knowledge to understand why it is impressive?

The point I've been trying to make is when performing or creating magic do it in a laymen's perspective as in what they are interpreting watching your effect, why they should be intrigued, why should care, why they should be entertained, why they should amazed. You can show any trick to a magician but laymen are your main audience. Magician may not be as impressed with because they KNOW it and because it's directed towards LAYMEN. It's still going to be a great trick for LAYMEN.

 

[CDarklock]

So you just described a magician who is not yet developed as a performer?

Nope. I described a magician too lazy to perfect his act, and too arrogant to keep it off the stage.

I don't think you'll ever understand that concept. You're so far off base, I simply don't have time to explain it to you. But good luck with your "design for the layman" strategy. I'm sure you're just too brilliant for me to comprehend.

 

[Keith Brown]

Earlier you said "Every performer, regardless of skill or experience, should be every bit as confident performing before an audience of magicians as he is before an audience of laymen - or his performance is necessarily not ready."

So if the magician has a lack of knowledge how would he know how to deliver a great presentation? How would he know what defines great magic and performance versus what he's doing?

If a magician is highly skilled, part of being skilled is to have the confidence and to be able to perform otherwise he wouldn't be a skilled magician. A magician is the whole package: technical and performance skill. Are you trying to describe a technician?

I can understand how bad magicians think they are good and can't stop showing it around because they have a big ego, have never seen what good magic looks like, don't understand the main goal is to fool and the second is to entertain or are just hobbyists.

How often do you perform? Do you get paid? Where do you want to go with yours magic? What are your goals for the future and in performing?

I said earlier this is OPINION so I don't know everything I just know this from experience and from watching the best.