Suspension of Disbelief
- Thread starter Steerpike
- Start date
It also doesn't hurt that fantasy/adventure genre of books and movies tend to run on a ten year cycle, and Harry Potter just happened to fall upon the cusp of the new cycle of fan interest.
You know, people rag on twilight, but to be honest, I like it. I have not read the books, but I commend the writer for taking the vampire genre and adapting it to fit how she did. Like it or not, she has now started her own "craze". Hell, I went into Borders and could not help but notice the whole teen section was full of twilight knock-offs. The vampires are not dressed in Victorian tuxedos and corset-dresses with fangs and long fingernails, I like that shes taken in it a different direction.
Which brings me to my next point even though Derren Brown admits "something" it is clear to any magician that it is not always what he claims about suggestion and such. Like someone else made the point of, he is just riding the fact that it is popular to be reasonable and logical now, to use science instead of faith. Whereas back in the days of what is often referred to as the Golden Age of magic, they claimed Spirits or "eastern shaman" b.s. Derren is using the "magic" of reason, and its this whole "truth is stranger than fiction" thing kinda. he says it himself as a side note, "i am dishonest, but at least im honest about my dishonesty"
You can still claim that what you are doing is real, but being a teenage kid and claiming some indian man taught it to you does not make sense. Be creative. Just because Daniel Madison said in that one video that he likes to say it is "sleight of hand" and wants to be more upfront about his magic, doesnt mean its the new rule. Just like Twilight brought new popularity to an old subject, you can too, you just have to change it and justify it and apply it to the world as it thinks now.
sleight of hand claims dont have the appeal it used to. lately I am changing my mind and I want to find my my own "reason" or "claim" of magic. I think fantasy and mystery can still surround what you do, but it should be new.
I think whats important is that there it fits into "unknown yet known". Like people experiencing what they think to be magic, yet not yet enough it seems to understand how the man is controlling the spirits to link the rings. Or they know enough about psychology to see how it could be real but dont understand how Derren Brown does what he does.
They know, but dont know enough. This is why they will accept it as real. I myself am going to try to use the concept more to increase my impact and be more individual.
Which brings me to my next point even though Derren Brown admits "something" it is clear to any magician that it is not always what he claims about suggestion and such. Like someone else made the point of, he is just riding the fact that it is popular to be reasonable and logical now, to use science instead of faith. Whereas back in the days of what is often referred to as the Golden Age of magic, they claimed Spirits or "eastern shaman" b.s. Derren is using the "magic" of reason, and its this whole "truth is stranger than fiction" thing kinda. he says it himself as a side note, "i am dishonest, but at least im honest about my dishonesty"
You can still claim that what you are doing is real, but being a teenage kid and claiming some indian man taught it to you does not make sense. Be creative. Just because Daniel Madison said in that one video that he likes to say it is "sleight of hand" and wants to be more upfront about his magic, doesnt mean its the new rule. Just like Twilight brought new popularity to an old subject, you can too, you just have to change it and justify it and apply it to the world as it thinks now.
sleight of hand claims dont have the appeal it used to. lately I am changing my mind and I want to find my my own "reason" or "claim" of magic. I think fantasy and mystery can still surround what you do, but it should be new.
I think whats important is that there it fits into "unknown yet known". Like people experiencing what they think to be magic, yet not yet enough it seems to understand how the man is controlling the spirits to link the rings. Or they know enough about psychology to see how it could be real but dont understand how Derren Brown does what he does.
They know, but dont know enough. This is why they will accept it as real. I myself am going to try to use the concept more to increase my impact and be more individual.
If you want to know exactly why I rag on that series, PM me. I'd rather not clog up the thread. For now, suffice to say that it's not innovation when you just randomly make things up ignoring all historical and mythological context and background, and then claim that you're basing your creation on science even though science contradicts your explanations every step of the way.
Anyway, Derren is successful with his act specifically because he understands how to use multiple layers of deception and create the suspension of disbelief. He's convincing and has done enough research to credibly establish himself as the expert.
Most magicians fail to create the suspension of disbelief using either the supernatural or pseudoscience because they don't know what they're talking about, and everyone can tell.
Anyway, Derren is successful with his act specifically because he understands how to use multiple layers of deception and create the suspension of disbelief. He's convincing and has done enough research to credibly establish himself as the expert.
Most magicians fail to create the suspension of disbelief using either the supernatural or pseudoscience because they don't know what they're talking about, and everyone can tell.
Oh there are other reasons why Twilight is an abomination. It has nothing to do with her ignoring Vampire mytho's (which would have taken her like 5 min on the internet to do the research..). It's a horrible book because the writing, structure and just pacing of the book are essentially asstastic. Now I am sure she is laughing her way to the bank due to her books being turned into movie's. (Tho I am expecting to see Steerpike hiding on a rooftop with a sniper rifle at each premiere.)
I enjoyed both ideas exposed just by Steerpike and Randy, for I, have me own motives to feel that those series are naught but an insult to the vampire lore and also I seriously dislike the way the books themselves are writ; but also see where yer post went towards, Faust. Sleight of hand. Prestidigitation. It doesn't really impress people as much. If somehow ye can make them believe that there's more to it all than what they thought, that'll make it all worth it.
Not that both points I mentioned above collide; I just enjoy (some of) what this debate is producing and thought about having me say in it.
Not that both points I mentioned above collide; I just enjoy (some of) what this debate is producing and thought about having me say in it.
I guess thats the line of a good performer where you either decide to study what you have been talking about, or learn some better acting skills to fake it. However, as far as pseudoscience goes, if I saw a guy on stage claiming it was all about science I would start to wonder a little bit why CERN needs 17 miles of tunnels and billions of dollars worth of equipment to do what they do, but this guy needs a stage and two chairs(and spongeballs, silks, cards, giant saws and doves.)
I guess what I am getting at is that if it is not different from everything everyone has seen a magician do, they are not going to believe your "science" is doing it, no matter how much you know. Think about this, even if it were actually science putting a sawed lady back together, I doubt the audience will believe you.
Which is why I said not to clog up the thread with it.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic."
-Arthur C. Clarke
Make of that what you will.