To Everybody creating "new" effects.

[Sherlock]

This is not bashing anybody in anyway but more of how I see this sort of thing right now by many younger magicians.

Many of the new threads coming up and posting a vid of this "new" effect is getting a bit old. I see so many young people performing effects that just randomly use a few different sleights together to get something "new." The reason for the quotation marks is because that even though it may not have been published I'm sure a number of magicians have come up with something quite similar.

I believe it would be best to chill out on all of this, mainly to help you and help the community a bit. Not saying don't create material necessarily but stop trying to create it. So many of you try so hard to put sleights together in a mix of turning over cards and clipshifting them to the top and some other nonsense. This isn't how the really great effects are brought to the eye of magic community.

Slow down on rushing on creating material isn't healthy for your magic in any sort of way. You essentially come up with mediocre things that don't have any zing or any real punch behind it. Again if something like an idea pops in your head on something that would look very cool then write it down and work on it, but don't just try to create because forcing it never makes it looks pretty.

Work on other peoples material and find about sleights and effects rarely seen and used by the magic world. Some sleights I have seen and other methods that are very useless in some effects could go very well using them in a much different way to accomplish something very different. Practice this if anything.

Practice the cool stuff that you find interesting from some big names or a nice little magic book you are getting for the holidays. Work on things that are tried and proven to work in many settings. Get an idea of what works and why it does, because throwing together stuff isn't going to cut it.

So to end it and sum it up in case anybody tries to put words in my mouth. I'm not saying stop creating but instead stop trying to create material that is just a bunch of nonsense piled up on top of each other. Practice other things to get creative juices flowing, let it come naturally through a dream, through a accident, something.

While I'm sure quite a few people disagree, there are a few exceptions. Mainly flourishing, or cardistry, w/e people are calling spinning the cards and calling art. That's something you can actually try out and try to work sleights together, I don't really consider anything like this art for quite a few reasons but I'll hold back on that rant today.

 

[hector_cervantes]

sherlock every one is trying to be... creative now... its ridiculous. suddenly I get the feeling, that if you pull of an effect by a pro magician your kind of cheeting on the artist thing... so I say F it, we are here to pull of tricks that amaze not to creat, there is a diference between a creator and a magician, many of the people here have to step back a bit and figure out what it is they are, Magician or Creator.

 

[visualartist]

sherlock every one is trying to be... creative now... its ridiculous. suddenly I get the feeling, that if you pull of an effect by a pro magician your kind of cheeting on the artist thing... so I say F it, we are here to pull of tricks that amaze not to creat, there is a diference between a creator and a magician, many of the people here have to step back a bit and figure out what it is they are, Magician or Creator.

Alot of the creators are magicians. Maybe not professionaly but alot do perform it.
Its not so much that. But that these kids,and they are kids, create tricks to become celebrities in the magic community. They want their names next to daniel madison and daniel garcia. They think its cool. Which is of course all the wrong reasons.

 

[Nino]

It is very diffucult to create something "new" Artist like CK, Dan and Dave, and many other people make varations of the old tricks. Tricks form books really. Like Brad Christian teaches three effects he teaches in his How to do Street Magic is form The Royal Road to Card Magic, he just renames them. So really Artist just make varations on their tricks to make it fit their sytle. So when you make a new effect, do your research if someone does something fimilar you can call it a varation then.

 

[CaseyRudd]

Being a kid, I know the urge to "create" something "new". But that's just it, it's either been created before, being published in a book I've never seen before. Today, I like the think of it as variations of old tricks or techniques, but those so-called-created-techniques have probably been discovered upon or skimmed over.

Im not one of those kids, that, everytime i think of something new, I tell everyone on the internet it's my creation. No, no, no. I do my research before, and if I cant find anything, well, i still probably won't. Since I can't find it within that research period doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

The problem with most kids in the magic community today, is like above, they want to become famous. My intentions in starting magic were to become famous, but very soon found out that it was for the wrong reasons. So, I started taking magic and cardistry as a hobby, looking at other things that if magic and cardistry took a wrong turn, i could go to that one particular thing as my backup.

I wont depend too much on magic and cardistry to take me somewhere, except to get reactions out of people and to entertain others. Music, film-editing, nd post-production is where I'm looking at, and I'm sorry this was a long post, but I thought it would be helpful to see a 14 year-old's point of view in this matter.

Cheers,
Perceptiv3

 

[cdwonderist]

I agree completely rushing into trying to create effects will take away from alot of your "self-magic." But if creating is your thing go ahead..there could be a lot prodigies in our field out there. Regardless its very hard to be a full time creator and a full time performer. Why do think David Blaine and other big names hire consultants?

 

[tman93]

Hey guys. So listen, I hear that you're saying that you're not trying to bash anyone, but in a sense, you are bashing kids for trying to create new things. The problem is that new magicians (who are young or old) have no idea what to do in a community of magicians who have been doing magic for years. So rather than saying that they're trying to be "famous", I feel that they're reaching out.

Now, I know it can get irritating to see the same sleights you seen before in a video called "New trick", but I think we should encourage this surge of creativity, even if it is the same old material we've seen before. By helping the younger magicians understand about research and study of the art, we can help them become better magicians! I think that this was a great topic to bring up and discuss. Thank you.

-Tyler

 

[ajp500]

So to end it and sum it up in case anybody tries to put words in my mouth. I'm not saying stop creating but instead stop trying to create material that is just a bunch of nonsense piled up on top of each other. Practice other things to get creative juices flowing, let it come naturally through a dream, through a accident, something .

I did start created a effect about a month ago through a accident witch had nothing to do with magic at all. I beilve it's better to create a trick so you don't have anyone else out there repeating your effect rather then publishing it. Think about it, would rather higher a magicain who does the same effects as the next one, or one that has effects and style like no other out there. Whats worth it in the long run..?

 

[canadamagic]

I want to agree but can't entirely, everyone wants to be famous, I doubt you could find someone that wouldn't (okay maybe you can but thats not the point)

So I can see how people would want to make as many effects as they can to try to get their name out. But that wont work, if you look at all of the things being released here you hear the magicians talk about how they have been working on the effect for 10, 20, 30 years to perfect it and make sure it has not been done before.

The best thing to do as I have constantly heard is to wait before publicizing your effect, not only to practice and perfect it but to make sure that it hasn't been done. The best effects are origional so the best effect isn't going to be ripped off and made in 5 min. People need to spend more time on heir effects and do their research.

I am in no way trying sway people from creating effects because if people didn't than there wouldn't be any new effects, but people need to take more pride in their effects by doing their reaserch and practicing.

 

[Sherlock]

Again, I'll say it again for those who may have just skimmed over it. I am not hindering or talking down about creativity, but there's a difference between trying to be creative and actually doing so.

Let it come to you through some way, but don't force it because it just turns into putting cards in middle, turning over the top, classic changing then clipshifting and turns into a mess.

You are right tman in a way, I am not bashing. However I am talking to the kids "trying" to create magic when they have no business to, for many reasons that are more apparent to the big name creators. I do not bash to many people, and kids learning about this are not on my list. I am simply giving out some advice, a bit harsh maybe but still helpful advice that if looked upon and reviewed correctly they should get a good look at where they are going.

 

[jprace]

If you think you created something new, and it's GOOD, research it. Send it to knowledgeable magicians and see if they know of anything similar. Send it to a magazine, such as Magic or Genii, and see if they think it's original.

When I first created the tricks on the Gum DVD I showed every magician I knew. I showed all the magicians that lectured for my club, and found ideas on how to improve the tricks. During this time, I found out my creations were original to me. Then, about two years later, I submitted the tricks to a publishing company, and made the DVD.

Research is everything. You don't want to harm your name by putting out material that's not yours. Even saying something is yours when it's not can hurt you.

 

[SHANE BLACK]

I don't think it's entirely true you can't create something new. You have an effect with an old concept with a new method that makes it new. I think alot of the material in the market is not thought out and are half attempts at just throwing something out there to make a buck but there is alot of crazy awesome material out there right now that just blows my mind for instance Steve Haynes Hand Out 500 is a new method and in my opinion as clean as you can get so much props to him. I can care less about being famous and thats the simple truth so I don't believe the statement everyone wants to be famous is true I just want to leave my footsteps in an art that I love so much with inivative ideas that helped evolve the art.

I'm doing a interview in two weeks with a respected company without mentioning any names at the moment and I will be talking alot about this subject and my thoughts on it. It's important to make a living to feed my family but it's equally important to me to be responsible with the material I release to be practical and workable in the sense it's something that can actually be performed to a live audience.

I've talked to creators that have never held a real working job for more than a few months but their products they come up with are very good but they always lack one thing.....reality. Sure this effect is a great idea and many others may branch an idea or two to make your concept work but if I take it to the floor to perform it multiple times how long is my setup and what materials will I need to execute the effect? Many of my effects require a one time setup to get you to a level that a regurlar card trick won't do with your audience and simply put thats the truth. You can argue that point and say gimmicks and utilities take away from talent but when it comes to the real world and laymen that can care less about the talent when it come to recieving that magical moment they remember for the rest of their life.

I watch stage magicians perform vernet balls and multiple appearances with compact disk and to give them credit its really cool and visually stimulates the audiences reaction but it doesn't leave them with the imprint of mystery it's just a really cool sleight of hand competition. One of the reasons Copperfield and Burton are so popular is they are able to pull repeated audience attendees from previous shows due to that imprinted memory cause they tell a story and connect their audience on a personal level to the magic they portray so the audience remembers them. I personally don't like stage acts where the magician doesn't talk to their audience and get to know them.

Why would you want to just stand on a stage and show off? Yes you want to demonstrate your skill but why? Without going too far off topic as I feel I already have I think its relevant to the discussion in hand. Do I want to put out an effect that looks cool or would I like to contribute something that helps the growth and at the same time be respected for it?

Think about it.

 

[etherealictrinity]

what i think is really funny is that youd get so pissed off over something so small rofl

 

[chriswiehl]

you have to learn to walk before you can run. i've learned that most things i thought were orginal back in the day are already made up. i needed to read more and research more. so yea.

 

[Sherlock]

what i think is really funny is that youd get so pissed off over something so small rofl

Who's getting pissed? I read every post carefully and no one is getting pissed off about anything. It's just upsetting to see so many kids try to create when they should be practicing their double lifts or w/e crazy sleights they have.

 

[markdegoozygooz]

have you, Sherlock, ever created something completely "original" or "new"?

You have an effect with an old concept with a new method that makes it new.

I understand that you're tired of seeing magic tricks with a bunch of unoriginal sleights shoved together, yet you say that anything done this way is mediocre. I myself have tried to create different effects by reusing sleights I've learned, or adding on to an effect with a variation to change the ending or make it seem even more impossible

imo, there's nothing wrong with trying to make new effects if you have the creativity or experience behind it. I just always wanted to make something new because I was sick of knowing I only performed tricks created by others. But where can someone start without a foundation, right?

 

[SHANE BLACK]

have you, Sherlock, ever created something completely "original" or "new"?



I understand that you're tired of seeing magic tricks with a bunch of unoriginal sleights shoved together, yet you say that anything done this way is mediocre. I myself have tried to create different effects by reusing sleights I've learned, or adding on to an effect with a variation to change the ending or make it seem even more impossible

imo, there's nothing wrong with trying to make new effects if you have the creativity or experience behind it. I just always wanted to make something new because I was sick of knowing I only performed tricks created by others. But where can someone start without a foundation, right?

I can actually understand and relate to everything you just said. It's because of these reasons that lead me to be a engineer in magic along with I just found I had a knack for it. I have a strange approach to the way I design magic but it works for me. I never think what can I create, or what can I do thats original I have never thought like that and actually had something actually be good. Believe it or not most of my ideas come when it's inconvienent for me like when I'm laying down and about to fall asleep or I'm driving about to get into my final destination or when I'm in a meeting and I use my post it notes on my Iphone and type every idea at any moment.

It's strange actually my ideas come to me when I'm not trying and usually it's a light bulb illuminating. I don't find an old effect and say how can I make this better I've never been that way and from my soon to be published material you'll notice that in my magic. Funny Chris said something a while ago about when he was first creating stuff he found it to be someone elses work. Funny thing is I create effects sometimes and I have no idea it's someone elses work its just a better take on it or its a flop. I have ideas everyday that I know aren't practical so I push them to the side and move on.

 

[Sherlock]

Well by the sound of it, you need to swallow your pride and get over the fact that you use other people's material. There is a reason magic exists today and it's because of these guys who constantly come up with great material.

I reallllly dislike repeating myself, and this is the third time. The kids trying to create new effects are using sleights from other effects to create a jobbled up mess of trash basically. A new sleight or a new gimmick is cool and I support it but I don't think people just think of these gimmicks and sleights. This stuff comes to them through practice of other things and wondering what would happen if I did this to this sleight and boom you have something new.

A foundation is not based around using a bunch of old sleights to create something that is barely mediocre. Look at something as simple the two card transpo with a dupe. So powerful yet so simple. Then you have people doing triple lifts, then clipshifting, then double lifting, and a topshot to create something they think is "new."

Which one do you think the audience wants to see?

 

[Justin.Morris]

I think I'm going to have to disagree entirely.

In business and leadership, it is often said that to get one truly good working idea, one must go through hundreds (in some cases thousands) of crappy ideas. Once that one idea is found, it can be worked into something great.
This is why companies have many collaborative minds working together when looking for new ideas (Google would be a very obvious example of a corporate structure that highlights this principle)

So, In magic, why not encourage anyone who is creative to create as much as they can. Try things out. Develop the good ideas and pitch the bad. Now I agree, don't try to market every idea, but don't ever stop being creative!

Some have said that Sankey has marketed every little trick he comes up with. There are definite duds he puts out, and there are some gems that are usually underdeveloped. But think about all the great stuff he does put out. Paperclipped is brilliant for example.

I say deal with all the "new" ideas that come by providing guidance and direction where you have some expertise, and encourage development of ideas that others have already shared, into great finished works of art. eek

Justin

 

[Sherlock]

I think I'm going to have to disagree entirely.

In business and leadership, it is often said that to get one truly good working idea, one must go through hundreds (in some cases thousands) of crappy ideas. Once that one idea is found, it can be worked into something great.
This is why companies have many collaborative minds working together when looking for new ideas (Google would be a very obvious example of a corporate structure that highlights this principle)

So, In magic, why not encourage anyone who is creative to create as much as they can. Try things out. Develop the good ideas and pitch the bad. Now I agree, don't try to market every idea, but don't ever stop being creative!

Some have said that Sankey has marketed every little trick he comes up with. There are definite duds he puts out, and there are some gems that are usually underdeveloped. But think about all the great stuff he does put out. Paperclipped is brilliant for example.

I say deal with all the "new" ideas that come by providing guidance and direction where you have some expertise, and encourage development of ideas that others have already shared, into great finished works of art. eek

Justin

You make a great point here, but I'll tell you the problem with it mainly with youngsters.

More than likely they won't develop any sort of real creative process with this just starting off. It's highly uncommon to find someone who is just creative naturally and just comes up with things on the spot with little revision needed.

The way they are starting off by learning some sleights and then just moving cards around with sleights used in different ways isn't the right way to start off. Let it come to you, this is the best starting point because it opens up the creative process for you now.

Once you learn what a great idea feels like, looks like, and how it came about you then you can truly "try" to come up with effects. This doesn't mean you show every effect that you come up with now, you don't want to be Sankey in this and release so much crap that people just won't trust your material.

Build off of what you know now and believe good things will come, it may be in a hurry or you may stall out and take awhile before something comes, but something will come.

Two side notes here, one about the quote, the people that come up with tons of crappy ideas are usually paid for this type of work no? Quite often it isn't crap, it's just that it needs elaboration which isn't what companies advertising want. They want catchy slogans and phrases and things that can hook the listener quickly.

The second is about Sankey, I dislike much of his material because it's just variations on so many old things. Some of the old things are not very good in the first place or his variations don't improve on an already great effect.

I recently received 22 blows to the Head and so much of the actual material was just a magician showing how little he really understands about mentalism. I am not calling myself an expert on the subject, however I do understand a thing or two and listening to him just annoys me.

He could be so amazing with his creations, but he doesn't sit back and rework his material and fully appreciate it. He sells w/e people will buy, and in this case just a hit or miss buy. He has some great thoughts, yet still comes out with some material that is pretty much just crap from the beginning or like you said just gems he didn't polish because he was working on his latest effect.