Turnover pass?

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by Wallmott, Sep 6, 2009.

  1. Hello!

    Which Turnover pass do you think is the best one? Can anyone recommend me where i can learn a good turnover pass?
     
  2. Are you talking about the one where you turn the deck over and then over again? I thought there was only one kind of that
     
  3. I only know of 2 Turn over passes. One of them controls the card to the top, the other controls the card second to the bottom.

    The first is simply a Hermann Pass action with turning over the deck as cover. I'd recommend this one because it's very easy and good for beginners.

    As for the second one, it uses the Top Card Cover principle. Now usually, the Top Card Cover Pass controls a card second to the top. But the Top Card Cover TURNOVER Pass controls the card second form the bottom. It was developed by Richard Kaufman.

    Niether is better than the other cuz they are used for different situations.
     

  4. Thats the one im looking for, any ideas of where i can learn this?
     
  5. If you want to learn a good turnover pass check out the Invisible Pass booklet by Hugard and Braue (of RRTCM and ECT fame). It's on lybrary.com.

    The finger positions and technique are a little different from the standard Hermann style pass which affords you a little extra cover. If you want to learn the Hermann style turnover passes then Expert Card Technique is as good a place as any. First thing in the pass chapter which i think... is either chapter 3 or 4. "The invisible turn-over pass".

    Tom
     
  6. I love the way that the hermann pass is described by aaron fisher in the paper engine, but it isn't a turnover version. I like to apply the principles he teaches with his version to the standard turnover pass. So if you're interested, maybe check out his 1 on 1 as well as a source for learning the turnover (assuming you can't just figure it out yourself).
     
  7. If you want a great turnover pass, look at the Effect "Alone In a Crowd" in the book By forces unseen. The pass is done in the action of turning the deck end for end, which is different than any other turnover pass you may find, because other turnover passes turn the deck over the other way. End for end is cleaner.
     
  8. Yes, but end for end looks quite unnatural.
     
  9. not if you end for end all the time, even when you are not performing the pass. Now only truning end for end when doing the pass? Yes, that would be unnatural.
     
  10. yes, but it is still unnatural to laymen. if you asked them to turn over a deck, they will almost always turn it over sideways.
     
  11. You could say that about so many things in card magic...

    As for the Turnover Pass:

    Card College Vol 4
    The Card Magic of Paul Le Paul
    Expert Card Technique
    Earl Nelson's Lost Tapes
    Richard Kaufman's On the Pass
    Fred Braue and Jean Hugard's The Invisible Pass booklet on Lybrary.com
     
  12. I know. It's kind of sad.
     
  13. laymen dont much look at that, its only unnatural is it doesnt fit your other actions, imo. But its whatever your preference is.
     
  14. No one can know that for sure.
    Many laymen keep their suspicions and critiques well after the performance is done.
     
  15. then i guess its whatever the magician wants to do then,
     
  16. If you hand a deck to a laymen and ask them to shuffle they're probably not going to do an in the hands riffle shuffle or a perfect faro either, but that doesn't mean that when you do those things they're going to think 'I wouldn't shuffle like that, he must be doing something sneaky'.

    In the same way they don't think something's up just because you flipped the pack over a different way to them. It's not like you are flipping the pack over in a particularly elaborate or suspicious way, you simply flip it over sideways rather than lengthways. It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

    People seriously don't care about this type of stuff, because they expect the magician to handle a pack of cards different to them. As long as you don't stiffen up and start acting awkwardly when you do the sleights, these moves seem perfectly natural.

    Tom
     
  17. My evidence contradicts your statement.
    Ive been with laymen who,after card tricks, say " if he put my card in that way the first time..why did he do it in that other way the next trick?"
    Or "his hands looked so wierd.Ive seen smoother magicians"
    And my favorite "haha did you see when he stopped talking and stared for a bit?Its so obvious he did the "move" right there"
     

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