Using someone else's music in a performance

[Oliver Addams]

Hey, I have some questions about copyright stuff for magic performances.

I would love to use a piece of mainstream music such as the Doors in a stage/parlor performance but I do not know the legalities of it all. I was hoping someone could help me out by explaining what I would have to do to be able to use a piece of music that is well known. Does having someone perform a live version on lets say a piano work or would I still need some sort of permission. I really don't know. I would love it if someone who knows this stuff could help explain.

Thanks,

–Oliver

 

[Simon_Magic]

Heya Oliver!

I think that as long as you do not claim that the music you are using is yours, your good to go. When you buy the CD/Download/LP/Whatever then you have the right to play the music. Obviously I do not know if this is the law, but it stands to reason. Otherwise you would have your music but you wouldn't be allowed to hear it in the first place!

When I do shows with popular music, the only trouble I have is when I place it on Youtube. A lot of music companies have deals with Youtube that allow users to use their music for their own videos for example Charly by the Prodigy. You then get an email from Youtube saying that because they know the music is not owned by you, the company that has produced it has the right to pull the sound from that video whenever they want, and a link to buy that song off ITunes is added to your video's page when it is loaded. Your only problem with Youtube is that they do not have a deal with every record company, and I have had an email from Youtube once telling me that the music on my video has been pulled off because that certain company doesn't like their music being used. I then had to sit through a rather degrading 5 minute cartoon video on the subject of copyright theft, despite the fact I never claimed that I created the track.

In a stage show however, no one is really going to mind. Copperfield, Sperry, Burton and loads of others use popular music and no one bats an eyelid.

I work a lot in the Burlesque clubs and Cabaret clubs here in the UK, and I'm telling you now that if every single one of those girls and boys couldn't use popular music, there wouldn't be a show.

Simon_Magic

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Actually, at least in the US, you're a bit off there.

When you purchase music (or movies or whatever) you have the right to enjoy that music yourself or with a small group. Technically, if you use that music during anything that will earn you money or for a large enough crowd, you need to get the rights to do that and pay royalties.

That being said, unless you're pretty well known, the chances are that it will never come up. I've seen some of the magic-famous people out there say that they've never paid royalties for the music they used, even though they knew they probably should.

Basically, it comes down to this: You're using someone else's intellectual property. They are due their royalties whenever you do that for personal gain (or for a large enough audience for free), if they want them. Trick or track, someone put the work into making it and they are due their royalties.

 

[Oliver Addams]

Actually, at least in the US, you're a bit off there.

When you purchase music (or movies or whatever) you have the right to enjoy that music yourself or with a small group. Technically, if you use that music during anything that will earn you money or for a large enough crowd, you need to get the rights to do that and pay royalties.

That being said, unless you're pretty well known, the chances are that it will never come up. I've seen some of the magic-famous people out there say that they've never paid royalties for the music they used, even though they knew they probably should.

Basically, it comes down to this: You're using someone else's intellectual property. They are due their royalties whenever you do that for personal gain (or for a large enough audience for free), if they want them. Trick or track, someone put the work into making it and they are due their royalties.

That's what I was thinking. I would like to have a cover of the Doors song "People Are Strange" on the piano, either have a pianist perform it live while I perform or have it playing over a sound system. Because it is a piano cover and not an actual band playing a cover is that a way to get around it? Perhaps can I modify the song note-wise to make it different yet still similar so the audience can recognize the song?

 

[JButterfield]

Perhaps can I modify the song note-wise to make it different yet still similar so the audience can recognize the song?

If it's someone else's song, it's someone else's song. If it's too similar to another song, that's still an infringement.

"Bittersweet Symphony" turned out to be a Rolling Stones song slowed down, and led to a big lawsuit for instance.

 

[bentley]

Actually, at least in the US, you're a bit off there.

When you purchase music (or movies or whatever) you have the right to enjoy that music yourself or with a small group. Technically, if you use that music during anything that will earn you money or for a large enough crowd, you need to get the rights to do that and pay royalties.

That being said, unless you're pretty well known, the chances are that it will never come up. I've seen some of the magic-famous people out there say that they've never paid royalties for the music they used, even though they knew they probably should.

Basically, it comes down to this: You're using someone else's intellectual property. They are due their royalties whenever you do that for personal gain (or for a large enough audience for free), if they want them. Trick or track, someone put the work into making it and they are due their royalties.

Not necessarily true IF you are performing on a stage such as a theatre. It is the theatre's job to buy the blanket license because they benefit. Best answer is to check ASCAP and BMI for the rules. Straight from ASCAP:"Some people mistakenly assume that musicians and entertainers must obtain licenses to perform copyrighted music or that businesses where music is performed can shift their responsibility to musicians or entertainers. The law says all who participate in, or are responsible for, performances of music are legally responsible. Since it is the business owner who obtains the ultimate benefit from the performance, it is the business owner who obtains the license. Music license fees are one of the many costs of doing business."

 

[CalvinTan]

Not necessarily true IF you are performing on a stage such as a theatre. It is the theatre's job to buy the blanket license because they benefit. Best answer is to check ASCAP and BMI for the rules. Straight from ASCAP:Some people mistakenly assume that musicians and entertainers must obtain licenses to perform copyrighted music or that businesses where music is performed can shift their responsibility to musicians or entertainers. The law says all who participate in, or are responsible for, performances of music are legally responsible. Since it is the business owner who obtains the ultimate benefit from the performance, it is the business owner who obtains the license. Music license fees are one of the many costs of doing business.

What you are describing is what is called performance rights. If you are performing using copyrighted music, whether it's live or not, you will need a license with ASCAP and BMI. If you are going to broadcast the music, such as on TV, the radio, or any other sort of media, you will need broadcast rights which is a separate license from ASCAP and BMI. (SOCAP for Canada).

Bentley is correct in that the business owner should obtain the license for his establishment, such as bars that bring in cover bands, however, not all business owners are aware of these licenses, and/or choose not to pay for the license. Within the last few years, I have seen an increase in ASCAP and BMI cracking down on businesses that do not have licenses. (I work in the audio industry)

-Calvin

 

[RealityOne]

To be clear, the performer is as much on the hook as the establishment.

If a performer uses a song in their performance, they can get the license to the music -- that way, whatever venue they are performing in they are covered.

 

[RickEverhart]

As mentioned by others...you should get the license, but 90 percent of us myself including do not because we are hobbyist or semi-professional magicians and not making thousands upon thousands of dollars. If I play some popular music while performing a birthday party show in a garage...I'm pretty sure nobody is going to come knocking at my door asking for a license.

 

[AshleyHall]

This post has been edited due to the amazing responses and assistance I have received here... you guys are awesome! Cheers...

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

That is true that 90 percent of the vast majority of magicians are hobbyists or semi professional, and I do agree with Mr. Rick on this one. Being that I'm (ok, gonna give away my age here, or maybe not) in my 20's would I have to purchase a music license to use popular music in my act? I don't think I could afford the thousands of dollars it would take every month to pay up.

If someone is a professional of Copperfield's caliber or Lance, any of the really big names in the magic industry, then ya, I can see where they can afford a license... but I'm talking about the rest of us, myself included, who are just starting out and frankly... I don't want to be famous like Copperfield. Why because of all the stupid crap that goes with being famous... your privacy out in internet land for all to see and speculate on your life... not something I want... and people want your ching ching... $$ If I'm just getting started in the theatre and I want to use someone else s music in my act how do I go about doing that when I don't have the cash to drop on a license? or was David and others referring to a performer being famous like Copperfield what have you that have a business?

what advice would you as pretty awesome seasoned performers, to someone like myself who wants to use popular music, for some of my stuff, because the music fits what Im doing? if your an amateur, hobbyist semi professional as Mr. Rick states.... do you still need a license... speaking from a 20 somethings point of view.

Age is irrelevant. It's kind of like this: Technically, you should have a license if you're using someone else's music in your performance. However, the reality of the situation is that lots of people who are semi-famous use music that isn't there's or that they don't have the rights to and it doesn't matter. It only matters if someone from the creator of the music or the person/people/company representing the artist decides it matters. Which means they have to know it's happening, and they have to care.

Chances are, it will never matter.

There's a lot of music out there that's available for free as well. Or you could commission something from a musician. Or you could learn to play yourself and create unique music for your magic (like I plan to do.)

 

[Luis Vega]

Bentley is correct in that the business owner should obtain the license for his establishment, such as bars that bring in cover bands, however, not all business owners are aware of these licenses, and/or choose not to pay for the license. Within the last few years, I have seen an increase in ASCAP and BMI cracking down on businesses that do not have licenses. (I work in the audio industry)

-Calvin

Even know those places are the ones that give the artists a lot of mainstream publicity?

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Even know those places are the ones that give the artists a lot of mainstream publicity?

Publicity doesn't put food on the table or pay bills.

 

[Luis Vega]

Publicity doesn't put food on the table or pay bills.

But it does help the artist to get know among people...I found my favorite group listening music in a cafe..now I have a lot of his discs... of course publicty help put food on the table and pay bills...

 

[Randy]

But it does help the artist to get know among people...I found my favorite group listening music in a cafe..now I have a lot of his discs... of course publicty help put food on the table and pay bills...

You are correct AND you are also dead wrong.

People can become interested in a band by hearing the song in a club or whatever. But, with today's technology A LOT of people would either torrent the bands work or go to one of many MP3 websites for the song.

Most bands don't make much money from Album/CD sales. They make their money from touring around. (Pretty much everybody knows this.)

 

[Luis Vega]

You are correct AND you are also dead wrong.

People can become interested in a band by hearing the song in a club or whatever. But, with today's technology A LOT of people would either torrent the bands work or go to one of many MP3 websites for the song.

Most bands don't make much money from Album/CD sales. They make their money from touring around. (Pretty much everybody knows this.)

Of course I am aware of it...I was just telling my case...I NEVER download music for free... so I buy the CD´s of the bands I like (and probably never come to my little town)... c´mon...

But of course... people that are interested by listening their music will come to their concerts... and in the end...they casually hear them ór hear their music in a party where a person put their music..without paying the artist royalties...

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

But it does help the artist to get know among people...I found my favorite group listening music in a cafe..now I have a lot of his discs... of course publicty help put food on the table and pay bills...

A lot of magicians and other performers have a tendency to fall into the trap of thinking that publicity is a form of payment in and of itself. They do tons of gigs under the premise of, "You won't get paid money, but you'll get lots of publicity!" People knowing who you are doesn't do anything for you, unless the people who know who you are, are also the people who are going to give you money and/or goods. Yes, you do need to get your name out there but you also have to be careful not to have a reputation as someone who works for free.

This also applies to music that's being used in shows and such. Saying that you're getting publicity for the musician who's work you're using in a magic show is an empty thing. Unless you're specifically telling people what music it is (As in, it's on the promotional material and/or announced during the show), they'll probably never know who or what it is, unless it's popular. If it's already popular enough that they know it, you're not helping the band or musician any by using it yourself and in fact, may be kneecapping your own performance because they will have memories and such associated with that music which could be counter-active to your goals with the performance.

If it's not popular enough that the people hearing it don't already know what it is, they probably won't be able to figure it out unless you tell them. Or, well, with smart phones these days they may be able to figure it out with an app like Shazam.

So, what I'm saying is this: Unless you're specifically telling people where to buy the music, you're not giving them any form of publicity that will help them in any real way.

 

[Bizzaro]

Joanie Spina talked a bit about this at IMX. Almost all theaters and nightclubs etc have to have a license to play music. (Look up Dancehall License) Any music played under that roof is generally covered. Your major headache is going to be TV and the like. Some places will pay for the rights, or you will have to, or they will get someone to make a "close but not so close they can't sue us" version.

I say get some music you have the rights or permission to use as a backup for those situations.

 

[Bude]

WOW.......This is really very great conversation between all of you.keep going guys and share you knowledge.