Video Review - Bicycle Zippo's

[deckmastercards]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puEan_DK6Ms

I was shocked at how amazing these Erlanger cards were, especially for a Bike deck. I WISH these cards were available as a separate deck, too.

I was surprised when I realized they were only $22 on bmpokerworld. I saw them listed elsewhere for $30, and a Zippo lighter costs $25-30 as well, so it seems like an amazing deal.

I hope you guys like the review.

As stated in previous threads, I made the review more concise (7 minutes isn't bad considering I reviewed the lighter a bit too). I also added a "skip to handling" button for cardists that don't want to listen to boxes and designs.

 

[Lazarus12]

Nice review, i rly like the lighter and cards myself...

p.s. u have one more sub now!

 

[deckmastercards]

Nice review, i rly like the lighter and cards myself...

p.s. u have one more sub now!

I really appreciate that, thank you!

And indeed the lighter was really nice. There are very few Zippo designs that I don't find cheesy, and this was one of them.

 

[eostresh]

Nice review...just FYI. an Air Cushion USPCC deck is a cambric finish. Also All USPCC cards from here on out will be labeled as Air Cushion regardless of the specific variances between finishes.

 

[deckmastercards]

Nice review...just FYI. an Air Cushion USPCC deck is a cambric finish. Also All USPCC cards from here on out will be labeled as Air Cushion regardless of the specific variances between finishes.

What makes you say that? USPCC still uses linoid, linen, cambric, smooth, and some others all distinctly labeled on the boxes.

 

[eostresh]

What makes you say that? USPCC still uses linoid, linen, cambric, smooth, and some others all distinctly labeled on the boxes.

Two reasons, one a technicality and the other legal.
First, the legal. According to a blog post by Jason Brumbalow about a year ago USPCC was going to start labeling all of it's brand name cards "Air Cushion" do to some trademark issues. I think it may have been all tied up with the legal battles they were having with the BicyB cards over the Rider Back but I'm not really sure? There was no mention when it would take effect and he was unclear if it was every USPCC card or just the various Bicycle brands. It was going to effect the Ellusionist cards. Supposedly they would have to start labeling their signature brands Air Cushion regardless of the actual stock and finish. T11 may be exempt. I have word that they are actually a "partner" with USPCC at this point. Indeed their cards are starting to make their way into most retail stores and not just sold exclusively online. This special relationship may exempt T11, T11 may not yet be effected by this decision, or Jason Brumbalow may have been mis-informed. Anyways, I have yet to see any Tallys or Bees with "Air Cushion" but I have yet to try out the Erdlinger runs of those cards and I certainly don't have a 2010 print run of any of those either.

Now the technical. I searched high and low for an answer to "What is a Cambric Finish?" question. I even asked USPCC direct(no answer) and the most accepted answer from card collecting experts is that the "Cambric" is a printing term used to describe the pattern of dimples on the surface of the card. If you look close you will realize that the dimples are not aligned in perfectly even rows and columns but, in fact, resemble an almost checker board type pattern. This pattern "looks like" a cambric fabric that is most commonly used for cross stitch and other embriodery work.

Now because practically all USPCC cards with a dimpled finish use the same pattern for the dimples then technically all USPCC cards(save the smooth finish) are "Cambric Finished." That doesn't mean that all the finishes are exactly alike. Indeed, I am pretty sure that the Bulldog Squeezers, the Propogandas, and the Tally Hos all use the same stock and they all have the same dimples but I can definitely feel a difference between them....not a big difference mind you. So all in all the fact that some cards are labeled as Cambric and some are not comes down to advertising. And that advertising dates back over 130 years. You will find that most cards are labeled "cambric finish" are associated with the Bee brand. That dates back prior to Consilidated Dougherty, when Bee was owned by New Yourk Consolodated. I believe they actually came up with the original pattern but I'm not sure. What I know is that A. Dougherty advertised the "Liniod" finish, Russel Morgan had the "Air Cushion" and NY consolidated had the Cambric. How big a difference each of those finishes were from one and other 100 years ago I cant say? What I do know is that all three of the major USPCC brands are using the same dimple pattern in this day and age. So the labels about finish are more company history than anything else. The biggest difference these days in cards (IMO) is in the cut, the press, the stock, and the quality controls used. Some say the final spray coat finish makes a difference, and if Richard Turner told me he could feel the difference in the finish alone I would believe him, but for me, and I suspect most of us, the biggest difference you will find is in one of the afore mentioned areas.(Actually, unless you do a lot of Faro work the cut probably doesn't make a big difference either) So it all comes down to this. Don't take too much stock into the finish label on the deck.

If you are interested in more info... http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?30984-Playing-Card-Buyers-Guide

 

[ID4]

Always take Jason Brumbalow's or more appropriately J. Bone's (his nickname) posts with a grain of salt. It seems that he likes to spread misinformation to maintain ellusionist's bottom line.

 

[deckmastercards]

Jason's post had nothing to do with non-Ellusionist decks.

Most of the handling differences come from stocks used. The "UV-500 Air-Flow/Glide" was simply an Air-Cushion finish printed on the UV-500 card stock that glowed under UV light.

USPCC has retained the use of its popular finishes. The difference between cambric and air-cushion, to my knowledge, is that cambric dimples are slightly less raised and differently aligned.

That being said the difference is extremely minor.

I would break it down like this:

75% card stock
10% ink
10% finish
5% printing quality (the higher quality printing gives us the nice smooth edges)

 

[eostresh]

Jason's post had nothing to do with non-Ellusionist decks.

Well that's not the way I read it but it's been almost a year since I read it so I won't nit pick on it. One way or the other I have yet to see any change but it usually takes a while for cards to filter from the press on to the shelves...especially in Korea. I still am getting Ohio Bikes!

Most of the handling differences come from stocks used.

100% agree

The "UV-500 Air-Flow/Glide" was simply an Air-Cushion finish printed on the UV-500 card stock that glowed under UV light.

Yes I believe it was the same finish and the real difference is the stock. It was a great stock.

USPCC has retained the use of its popular finishes. The difference between cambric and air-cushion, to my knowledge, is that cambric dimples are slightly less raised and differently aligned.

Yes they have kept the final finishing coats on all the cards but the dimple pattern is the same. The pattern of the dimples may have at one point been different. Before all the mergers that created the USPCC that we know today. I have looked at Bikes and Bees under a magnifying glass and can't tell the difference. Maybe under an electron microscope you can still see a difference but I gather that the difference comes from the stock stiffness and thickness not a different pattern on the rollers. I suppose it is possible that different card stocks are run through the same calendering machine set at different temperatures. That should change the overall texture of the card. Maybe someday I'll get a tour of the factory and I can ask these questions?

That being said the difference is extremely minor.

I would break it down like this:

75% card stock
10% ink
10% finish
5% printing quality (the higher quality printing gives us the nice smooth edges)

I'd basically agree with those stats except for the Ink. I can't tell the difference between a red or blue bike nor can I tell the difference in different colored UV500 decks while blind folded...And I have tried! So I would just switch the 10% over to printing quality. The quality of the edge work doesn't seem like a big deal to newbies and intermediates but when you start using faro techniques(one and two handed) and doing a lot of intricate shuffling techniques(riffle stacking ect.) the quality really starts to make a big difference. Certainly more than the difference in the paint. I certainly understand your feelings on the paint. It is a psychological effect. If you like the looks of a card you will just naturally perform better with it . That's why I do as many blindfold tests as possible but even with that, and the fact that I am aware of the psychological phenomenon, I find that it is easy for me to be swayed by a pretty face. Stingers and the Expert at the Card Table deck are a great example. I could not tell the slightest difference in those cards in a blindfold test but never the less I managed to squeeze and extra week of performance out of the EATCT and I gave it a 5 start rating and the Stingers a 4 star.

So anyways, just a few thoughts that I hope help. You have a nice reviewing style...Keep it up!
Cheers!
Erik

 

[deckmastercards]

@the ink comment, I didn't so much mean the color as I did the saturation and type of ink. Metallic inks are notorious for screwing with handling and reducing the quality of fans over time. Colored decks, those completely covered in one sort of ink, often handle differently as well. I would imagine that different colors of inks change handling too in extreme cases, such as a yellow deck compared to a black deck. I would imagine the black ink is denser.

 

[eostresh]

@the ink comment, I didn't so much mean the color as I did the saturation and type of ink. Metallic inks are notorious for screwing with handling and reducing the quality of fans over time. Colored decks, those completely covered in one sort of ink, often handle differently as well. I would imagine that different colors of inks change handling too in extreme cases, such as a yellow deck compared to a black deck. I would imagine the black ink is denser.

That's an interesting theory...I'll design an expirament and get back to you on that.

 

[eostresh]

Okay well I just did a blindfold check. I started with a control group of for decks. The control group included Expert at the Card Table deck(Erlinger), Bee Club Special(Ohio), Tally Ho(Ohio), and Bulldog Squeezer(Ohio). The control group was selected because the EACT and the Club specials use the same stock but came out of different presses and had different quality controls, and the Tally's and Bulldogs have the same stock but were run at different quality controls. So I got to test my sensitivity versus stock, quality control, and finish. I pegged the stock 5 out of 5 times. I was able to detect the quality difference between Tally Hos and Bulldogs 5 out of 5 times. I was able to detect the quality difference between Club Specials and EACTC cards 4 out of 5 times.

Then I did a blindfold test between three different UV500 decks. Black Tigers, White Ghosts, and Blue Masters Edition. The Blue Masters had a funny "pop" to it...a peculiarity of that particular deck...so I was able to peg it 5 of 5 times but the difference between the Black Tiger and the Ghost was pure chance and I could feel it at the time. I think I got it right 2 times and I got it wrong 3.

So at this point my findings suggest that I can tell the difference between stock, finish, and printing quality but I cannot tell the difference in the paint job. Now all that means is that I can't do it. Perhaps you can tell the difference in a paint job but at this point the ball is in your court. I have heard that claim from many different reviewers(that a black card handles different from a white) but as of yet none of them have proven that they can tell the difference with a blindfold test. Thus the logical conclusion is that the difference you feel is psychological and not due to the performance characteristics of the card.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I am harping on a very small point but one of the reasons I got into card reviews in the first place was that their were way too many "Fanboys" writing card reviews that were basically opinion about how a deck looked. There is now way to completely avoid that but if you are going to write reviews you should at least try to rise above personal biases. People are smart enough to look at a card and decide for themselves if they like the look of a card. They don't need us to tell them how pretty or ugly it is because that is totally subjective. What the readers need is information about handling. Anglo Rugs are a perfect example. They are a beautiful card, one of the prettiest IMO, but they way they handle is so specific. It has so many strengths(packet cuts and aerial packet cuts, modern card slights dependent on single card glides and doubling techniques) and so many weaknesses(Atrocious fans, spreads and dribbles, try culling with it...Ha!) So for certain people with a very powerful style in flourishing or magic it could be the best card ever. For other people who have a smoother more elegant style it becomes a pretty paper weight.

So I am droning on...sorry. But the point is that claiming that the color of the deck makes a difference in performance is a pretty big claim. You're telling people that you will get better performance from the white version of the deck versus the black version or vice verse. There are people who can't afford one of each. If you are going to recommend that they pick one color over the other, a color they might not like as much, because it "performs better", then you need to prove that.

Now I did video tape my preliminaries so if you want me to prove that I can't do it I'll be happy to post that. Also I did 5 tests of each(control and the test group) witch is not statistically viable so if you want me to film 10 more attempts(15 the statistical magic number) I'll be willing to do that as well. What is sure is that I won't be satisfied that anyone can tell the difference in color by touch alone until I see it.

Let me finish up by saying that I do think you have some good reviews and I reckon you and I would probably agree on most things in regards to cards and card reviews but the claim that color makes a difference was just a bit to much to swallow. You do, however, produce a good review and I hope you keep it up!
Cheers!

 

[deckmastercards]

I can tell the difference between a fully black deck and a fully white deck on the same stock, but not by using an individual card. I would have to hold the whole deck, because the differences are easiest felt in regards to how the cards interact with each other. Black decks feel like they fan "softer." The exception to this is the KY Black Ghost which is just a total crap deck that doesn't fan at all (not sure if the new Ellusionist "premium coating"/magic finish changes this problem.)

I do my best to cover all aspects of a card: handling, design, box, price, rarity - though admittedly I spend more time on design than I should, and is something I am slowly rectifying in my reviews.

I can assure you that I am not a bias fanboy. It may not be obvious from my posts here, but on UnitedCardists, for example, I am very anti fanboy mentality.

That being said, a lot of what fanboys say is true. The Ohio White Ghosts are still my favorite custom deck.