What do we expect our spectators to believe?

[krab]

There was no question. The audience should come in expecting the magician to play that role.

This looks like a question.

So when people go to a magic show just by buying the ticket they give the magician permission to mess with their mind for a couple hours. If the magician puts across what they do as real magic then what they do extends beyond the theater. They, in essence, break that agreement. When this happens they cross the line, from entertainer to charlatan. Right?

Any, type of theater can say "I'm taking the role of a magician, pretend with me". Look at the musical wicked, the way she flys is completley transparent by design but they can get awaywith it becaus ehte audience is imagicning with the actors. Suspension of disbelief./QUOTE]
But a magician is only a magician. That is his role. He is the person who brings wonder. other are actors playing magicians.

Only with magic though can we say "I'm going to do something impossible, you know that what you're seeing can't be true, but I'm going to do it anyways. It'll be fun". In no other art form can Harry Anderson get away with his needle through arm. You can't sing a song that says "I'm going to stab a needle through my arm, it's not really going to happen, but you are going to swear I am mutilating myself." The surprise that comes when we see that his arm is fine doesn't come in any other art form.

I guess you have never seen old freak and geek shows. Side show acts, things like that. There is where Harry based some of those things on. So it does happen in other art forms. As for the songs see emo rock of the 90's

Exactly! Johnny Thompson and and Teller are heavy hitters. So, when I talk about Teller's essay in Magic mind and interviews where Penn and Teller are both speaking there is some clout. With this comment are you insinuating that Penn, half of one of the most successful duos in magic, doesn't have any input in magic worth paying attention to?

I like Penn but when you look at the two of them Teller is the smart one about magic and Penn is the smart one who cares more about the show side and less about the magic. He has even said Teller is the magic one of the two. So as with most magicians there are some things there but you have to look at it as a whole. I give more weight to Teller. What I am seeing is the last few days you have been on the Penn and Teller kick. I also know there are many magicians out there who just do not care for his style.

 

[Randy]

This type of attitude reminds me too much of the time when I took acting classes. The teacher was less about practicality and more about theory. Which can be fine sometimes, but a lot of the time it also ends up just being annoying.

If you are really into theory, I would suggest picking up The Five Points of Magic, and I think Tamariz supposedly has a book coming out called The Magic Rainbow (though I'm not sure WHEN it will be out.) but I would say check out anything Tamariz puts out. His thoughts on theory are less on the "Diva" talk and more on the real world side of things that can actually enhance your magic 10 fold. (also helps out a ton with your direction of attention). Also I would suggest Strong Magic and a few of Eugene Burgers books (though he does mention in one of the reprints that he doesn't suggest that people follow his writings down to the T, even though there are people who seem to do just that..)