What exactly makes someone a magician?

Jul 16, 2008
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somewhere in New York
What you're describing is an entertainer. A magician is an entertainer. You say it like a magician is more than an entertainer. Not really. A magician is simply an entertainer. Just like any other artist.

I know a magician is an entertainer, I was just saying its a different type. And just calling youself an entertainer..is vary vague if you dont attatch magician to it. If you just go up to someone and say "Im an entertainer" theyd be like huh? what do you do? thats what I ment.
 
Sep 1, 2007
733
2
What you're describing is an entertainer. A magician is an entertainer. You say it like a magician is more than an entertainer. Not really. A magician is simply an entertainer. Just like any other artist.

I think you're both a little confused.

The bigger cloud is being an entertainer, think of it as, as an entertainer, you have a PHD in magic.

being a magician is being more than an entertainer, just like being an painter is more than being an artist, there are things magicians do that some arts don't do or cannot do.
 
Oct 29, 2009
971
0
Just around
I think you're both a little confused.

The bigger cloud is being an entertainer, think of it as, as an entertainer, you have a PHD in magic.

being a magician is being more than an entertainer, just like being an painter is more than being an artist, there are things magicians do that some arts don't do or cannot do.

I see your point. Magicians can do more than your average entertainer, such as knowing more about the human mind, psychology and things like that. Is that what you meant?

When it comes down to it though, the big picture is we are all artists and entertainers. Magic is just a specified area of entertainment. Just like music, dancing, ect. are also.
 
Oct 29, 2009
971
0
Just around
I know a magician is an entertainer, I was just saying its a different type. And just calling youself an entertainer..is vary vague if you dont attatch magician to it. If you just go up to someone and say "Im an entertainer" theyd be like huh? what do you do? thats what I ment.

I'm not saying go to some one and say "I'm an entertainer", as obviously that would be weird. Magic is just one form of entertainment.
 
May 31, 2010
18
1
My quote

for people, magic is make something impossible happen for real. This is why, for people, it is so impressive and this is why we have to continue this, and make it better. This "art" is rare, it's not everywhere that there is magicians. Where I live, I am the best magician that people ever seen, and the only one. I have some "students" that I show them some little tricks and stuff. What they does is repeat what I show them. For people it's impressive, but the real art between me and them is that they repeat and me I invent. The base of art is invention, not copying. So, some "magicians" aren't magician, they repeat what they see. I am a magician and I can tell you that it's the best thing that I got in my life. Like if me and the deck were one, and only one person.

Thanks,

Raph.

Mabye this quote doesn't really fit in the description of a magician, but it's what I think about that.
 

-Ty

Sep 1, 2007
248
1
Australia
Entertainer

Musician who entertains an audience through music
Comedian who entertains an audience through comedy
Magician who entertains an audience through magic
Actor who entertains an audience through acting

Artist

Musician who inspires thought through music and/or provides his/her interpretation of the world through this particular medium.

Comedian who inspires thought through comedy and/or provides his/her interpretation of the world through this particular medium.

Magician who inspires thought through magic and/or provides his/her interpretation of the world through this particular medium.

Actor who inspires through acting and/or provides his/her interpretation of the world through this particular medium.

These categories are not mutually exclusive but do require a necessary distinction.

I think we flatter ourselves far too much by pretending that any magic we do is innately meaningful. To add a sense of power and resonance we must establish the meaning we are attempting to protray to the audience and then embrace the troublesome dilemma of sharing this meaning with the audience.

We are not the highest form of art, and magicians can still be magicians even if they don't change lives. Magicians do not need to hold some higher standard of personal life, and do not need to be wordly or wise.

Those distinctions might -and I only say might- need to be necessary to distinguish the 'good' magicians from the 'best' or 'greater' magicians, and I think this might be actual question you're asking. But a magician is simply another form of entertainer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Seriously, some 'magicians' ego's simply make it too hard to stand in a room...

Ty
 
Apr 5, 2009
874
1
26
Illinois
I think we flatter ourselves far too much by pretending that any magic we do is innately meaningful. To add a sense of power and resonance we must establish the meaning we are attempting to protray to the audience and then embrace the troublesome dilemma of sharing this meaning with the audience.

In Strong Magic, Darwin Ortiz in his chapters on meaning. which cover all kinds of things. from money to grifting. to gambling. you name it. acknowledges the fact that magic does have a meaning of its own. while it might not be as powerful as other methods of meaning. magic does have an innate sense of meaning.

(i'll edit my post with quotes and more specific wording after i get my copy out.)
 
Apr 1, 2009
1,077
1
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California
so your saying that Darwin Ortiz isn't a magician? how about Ed Marlo? David Roth? Dai Vernon?

edit: i forgot Dan and Dave Buck!!!

They are excellent artists, yes. All of them. I just don't feel if all you work with is a deck of cards or coins, you are what I described as being what a magician ought to be. what moves me and what I find beautiful in magic is not so much the man behind the table waiting with a deck in hand for his audience to have a seat. Coat with tails. shiny tie. What I find beautiful is the magician in disguise as a normal human being walking up to a completely innocent civilian, seeing their scenario, and performing a complete miracle. In a perfect world I suppose. But to make this description easier to understand, Clark Kent didn't walk around as Superman did he? No, he wore the suit and tie and glasses. "Dance monkey" seems to be the respect magicians often get. This is just how I feel magic should be, this gorilla art. like Parkour for instance. Knowing Cards and coins are very important, those artists you mentioned are of the best. but there's so much more to magic to make it beautiful.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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If someone creates the illusion that the impossible is happening, they are a magician.

you don't need to have wisdom, knowledge of current affairs, or even be "good at life" to do so.

Well sure you can be a magician and create the illusion of impossibilities, but if you are not loved by your audience how will you really connect with someone? Magicians are sympathetic characters in a play and in general most people are kind and down to earth. If you are a d-bag how will your audience connect?


An "Entertainer" is something much more. An Entertainer reaches their audience, connects with them, imparts their humanity, invokes emotions, and leaves a lasting impression.


I see what you did there, by your definition I wouldn't say I am a magician but an entertainer.


That's a very lofty statement. I've seen some amazing magicians and I've never had my life 'changed' by one.


Stands and taps his foot waiting to see where this goes

The first two were from YouTube. Couldn't tell you who the 'performers' were. They were not very good, but I just wanted to learn a couple tricks.

wow ok so i guess you really havent been impacted by it.

Wooah Nikki, of course he has ben impacted by magicians, they taught him two tricks through youtube, this planted the spark into Christopher's brain and it grew on it's own. I think I can safely say that most magicians got started after seeing/learing from, magicians.
Christopher it changed your life by making you a magician.

What is the point of trying to over analyze this? All you are tying to do in this thread is get people to argue semantics...In my opinion, a Teacher should be those things 100 times more so than a Magician should be.

I think you are under analyzing the power of a magician. Did you know that in a study of eating behaviors has found that the main cause of over eating stems from childhood? Do you know why it is so difficult for an adult to learn a new language, when a child can pick it up in a heart beat? Children can be easily influenced and conditioned. If a magician is performing shouldn't they perform at their best and teach them proper communication skills?

Magicians used to be teachers now they are “I am going to blow your mind.”



“If you can only consider yourself a magician with a deck of cards in your hand or a coin, you're not what a magician should be. A magician should be selfless since the art is often violated in some form in their eyes, but innocent in the spectators, so that's who it should be about. the spectator. You're a magician. the world is your canvas. Start painting.”

so your saying that Darwin Ortiz isn't a magician? how about Ed Marlo? David Roth? Dai Vernon?

edit: i forgot Dan and Dave Buck!!!

No that isn't what he is saying at all. He is only stating that in order to be up to par in what he calls a magician, you have to be more then a guy with a deck of cards in hand. Ortiz, Marlo, Roth, Vernon, Buck twins, are all magicians because they take the deck of cards and instead of just fooling people with one note colors, they entertain their participants with personality, etc.

This does it for me:
magician 
1.an entertainer who is skilled in producing illusion by sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; conjurer.
2.a person who is skilled in magic; sorcerer.

Don't copy paste from a dictionary. Dictionarys are put together by master of the english language, NOT magicians.


When it comes down to it though, the big picture is we are all artists and entertainers. Magic is just a specified area of entertainment. Just like music, dancing, ect. are also.

Correct, but we are not talking about the big picture here. We are talking about the specific form of entertainer known as a magician.


Silver


PS

This is a Bump post.
 
Apr 5, 2009
874
1
26
Illinois
No that isn't what he is saying at all. He is only stating that in order to be up to par in what he calls a magician, you have to be more then a guy with a deck of cards in hand. Ortiz, Marlo, Roth, Vernon, Buck twins, are all magicians because they take the deck of cards and instead of just fooling people with one note colors, they entertain their participants with personality, etc.

ok i thought he was trying to say that magic shouldnt use gimmicky cards it should be all ordinary objects. ok i agree with you then Asher, i was wrong



PS// best bump post ever Keo
 
Jul 13, 2009
1,379
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Nice

That is a nice Certifricate Though I think


IMG_0210.jpg




MINE IS BETTER


Silver



ps

That is my real name and it was a senior award given to me at Graduation.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,713
2,840
Wooah Nikki, of course he has ben impacted by magicians, they taught him two tricks through youtube, this planted the spark into Christopher's brain and it grew on it's own. I think I can safely say that most magicians got started after seeing/learing from, magicians.
Christopher it changed your life by making you a magician.

I was waiting for someone to try that line of logic.

It's not accurate, though. You're inverting the time line. I didn't see the tricks, then decide to learn magic. I decided to learn magic, then found the tricks. I decided. If anything, it was the reaction I got from performing the tricks that I decided to learn that got me hooked. The magicians themselves were forgettable. Obviously, since I've forgotten who they are.

The only way I can think of that would consistently change someone's life in regards to seeing a magician, is in the decision to become a magician oneself. Is that the goal of magic? To create more magicians? Honestly, I don't want to do that. I like the idea of magic being somewhat exclusive. Though, now that I think of it, magic is probably the one form of performance I do that people are likely to try to learn on their own. Everything else I do requires months or years of training before one can perform it and that is a deterrent for most people.

Also, thinking more on the subject, there's a lot of factors that go into changing someone's life. A magician that actually changes someone's life is just one small factor in a sea of variables. The huge, vast majority of anyone's performances will not be life altering to their audience. A good performance will certainly be memorable, but in almost every case the performance will not make a noticeable change to anyone's life.

To think that your card tricks and coin vanishes are consistently changing lives is absurd, bordering on narcissism.

A magician is someone that performs magic. Trying to make it be more than that is just self-aggrandizing.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love magic. It's hugely important to me. But it's another form of performance. Acting, music, art ... all of these things are powerful and important. But it's also important to keep a realistic view on things. Magic can be art. Art is an expression of one's self. All the greatest artists in the world are expressing their own world through their art. I think that should be the goal. To find a unique way to express oneself. One shouldn't, in my own opinion, need the validation of changing someone's life. Expressing oneself through one's art should be all the validation one needs.
 
Apr 5, 2009
874
1
26
Illinois
I was waiting for someone to try that line of logic.

It's not accurate, though. You're inverting the time line. I didn't see the tricks, then decide to learn magic. I decided to learn magic, then found the tricks. I decided. If anything, it was the reaction I got from performing the tricks that I decided to learn that got me hooked. The magicians themselves were forgettable. Obviously, since I've forgotten who they are.

The only way I can think of that would consistently change someone's life in regards to seeing a magician, is in the decision to become a magician oneself. Is that the goal of magic? To create more magicians? Honestly, I don't want to do that. I like the idea of magic being somewhat exclusive. Though, now that I think of it, magic is probably the one form of performance I do that people are likely to try to learn on their own. Everything else I do requires months or years of training before one can perform it and that is a deterrent for most people.

Also, thinking more on the subject, there's a lot of factors that go into changing someone's life. A magician that actually changes someone's life is just one small factor in a sea of variables. The huge, vast majority of anyone's performances will not be life altering to their audience. A good performance will certainly be memorable, but in almost every case the performance will not make a noticeable change to anyone's life.

To think that your card tricks and coin vanishes are consistently changing lives is absurd, bordering on narcissism.

A magician is someone that performs magic. Trying to make it be more than that is just self-aggrandizing.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love magic. It's hugely important to me. But it's another form of performance. Acting, music, art ... all of these things are powerful and important. But it's also important to keep a realistic view on things. Magic can be art. Art is an expression of one's self. All the greatest artists in the world are expressing their own world through their art. I think that should be the goal. To find a unique way to express oneself. One shouldn't, in my own opinion, need the validation of changing someone's life. Expressing oneself through one's art should be all the validation one needs.

sorry for the double post but while i was trying to figure out how to upload pictures you posted.

everything, and i repeat everything effects people.

heck i use jokes that i know i didnt come up with, but i dont know who told it to me first

and i doubt that person even knows who told it first. but i still tell the jokes. its affected my life.

as Marshall from In Plain Sight said, everything matters. and as my faith implies. Everything Happens for a reason. heck (i dont necessarily like these guys) but every 3rd rascal flatts song is about how little experiences, even painful ones got them to where they are now. Kenny Chesney (i think he's who sings it) sings a song about how he did stupid stuff to get to where he was and he wouldnt change any of them.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,713
2,840
sorry for the double post but while i was trying to figure out how to upload pictures you posted.

everything, and i repeat everything effects people.

heck i use jokes that i know i didnt come up with, but i dont know who told it to me first

and i doubt that person even knows who told it first. but i still tell the jokes. its affected my life.

as Marshall from In Plain Sight said, everything matters. and as my faith implies. Everything Happens for a reason. heck (i dont necessarily like these guys) but every 3rd rascal flatts song is about how little experiences, even painful ones got them to where they are now. Kenny Chesney (i think he's who sings it) sings a song about how he did stupid stuff to get to where he was and he wouldnt change any of them.

This post is barely relevant to the discussion at hand, but I'll go with it.

If everything you experience changes your life, then a magician 'changing your life' in that way is nothing special in the least. In fact, it's normal. I don't want to be normal. I want to stand out, but that doesn't mean I'm going to change lives.

One can see Rent and go home and remember that performance for the rest of their lives, and then change nothing about their life. It may have moved them, but it didn't make any measurable change in them.

Using jokes that you got from someone else doesn't mean that person changed your life. It means you're not as original as the person that first came up with that joke or line.

One's life is constantly effected by the events that occur, but not all events are created equal. Deciding to have oatmeal instead of cereal will probably have no measurable impact on your life. Similarly, seeing an amazing performance of magic will probably stick with you for the rest of your life, but is it really changing anything? Are you altering your behavior because of it? Does it change your beliefs? Will reality seem entirely different after watching the Professor's Nightmare?

No. Probably not.

And if it does, that performance was most likely at the cusp of a ton of other influences in your life. The tipping point, as it were. Life Changing Events are rarely isolated. In my own life experience, they tend to happen after your life was already getting nudged in that direction. After you've been thinking about doing something, or changing something, then something else happens that motivates you or pushes you to finally make that change.
 
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