When Does One Become a Magician?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Angathorion, Apr 15, 2008.

  1. Like the title said.

    When does one become a magician?

    I've been reading the threads in the forum, and I see a number of people discussing people not being "real magicians" or something along those lines.

    What makes a magician a magician? Is it his desire to bring, as Paul Harris says, the Art of Astonishment to others? Is it related to how other people view him? Is it about how he obtains his material? Is it as simple as whether he's taken the Magician's Oath? Or is it simply his skill level?

    I cannot find a way to satisfactorily define a magician. Basing it purely on skill level seems particularly superficial, but skill is needed to succeed as a magician. I would find it difficult to classify a failed magician as a magician at all, I think. Then again, I'd need to define "failed".

    Obtaining material from pirated sources is definitely against the ethics of magic. But what if the performer adheres in every other way, or ceases to pirate magic? Having done a disservice to the art, can he still be seen as part of it?

    Mindset? There, I think we will find it somewhat easier to agree upon. A performer with the mindset of a magician has great potential to become one. But this mindset will probably constrain him from performing to others until he is skillful, which once again brings us back to the point of whether skill is the decisive factor. Till then, is he considered a magician? Or just a wannabe?

    I hope I can have a few different opinions here. My current idea of the situation is that anybody that develops the appropriate mindset is a magician. But what about everyone else? Hopefully some of the more experienced people can chip in?

    This is a question I really would like to see answered. I'm still starting out in magic, though I'm not new at all to flourishing, so I do not know what to refer to myself as. When people ask if I'm a magician, I do not know what to say at all. I wish not to say I am a magician, for fear of hypocrisy or inflating my own opinion of myself, but yet I want to give myself the respect that I deserve. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. I think it depends on a reason for doing that. If he really wants to be a magician, and puts alot of work and time into his magic and entertain people, but is really poor (or something), than i think he can still be seen as a part of it. But if he does it only out of curiousity (he just want to know how the trick is done), than yeah, he is not a part of it.

    I'm not expirienced magician, i peroformed once, and it happend unplaned (at my birthday party; but it went really really well), and i've been practising magic for allmost a year now. And i wanted to know an answer to this question as well. Because i think that skill is really important, and i dont want to go out on the street's and flash, or drop, or screw up in any way. While im sitting at home and practising, im not that bad. When will i know im ready? When i do 100 Ego Changes in a row without mistake, when i do a pass that even i cant see, or is it something third?
     
  3. When some one is a Flourisher and a Magician, I think they are refered to as a Cardist. (Think thats right, Magicians, Flourishers and Cardist.)

    Cheers, Tom
     
  4. When does one become a magician?

    Check out whendoesonebecomeamagician.com on Monday, midnight, Eastern Standard Time to find out more.
     
  5. Well, as you have said, there are many different opinions on this subject, and I guess, it's like answering "What is magic?".

    Anyway, here's my opinion:

    A magician becomes one, when he is able to perform in front of a live laymen audience and is able to amaze and astonish them emotionally. This does not neccessarily mean that they make their audience believe in magic, nor does it make them think that the magician can truly do 'magic'. It would however, leave an imprint in their mind, and a good magic performance by a magician should leave his spectators while the memory of that very trick.
    THis is why I believe that my best effects are ones that my friends bring up time and time again.

    Of course, this would mean that the magician can perform flawlessly, so the skill level is 'defaulted' as high for a magician.

    I beleive it is more to do with performance and ability to pull of real sleight of hand in front of a laymen audience. This doesn't mean the DIFFICULTY of the trick will change the image of the 'magician' as the spectators are not interested in the difficulty, but the actual effect.
    So whenever you hear a jerk magician say "thats easy s***!" don't get all down. The difficulty doesn't matter.

    I also think that the SOURCES of their magician doesn't really make a difference to wheter they are percieved as a magician or not. Because, like the difficulty of the trick, the magicians audience doesn't care about where they get the 'magic' from.

    Suming things up- they should be able to perform in front of a live audience with lots of confidence. Be able to pull off sleight of hand wihtout any questions and be able to leave an imprint in their audience's mind.
     
  6. "When Does One Become a Magician?"
    Simple. When one desires to become a magician.
     
  7. When the audience isn't amazed by your finger skills.

    When the audience feels like they've witnessed magic.
     
  8. I think that words of Socrates are worth quoting in this matter:

    More you know, more you realise how little you know.

    So, as you start believe you are a good magician, suddenly you realise that you are a beginner.

    For the question, I don't know.
     
  9. lame openended question
    here is an answer
    when enough people call you one
    close the topic
     
  10. It's rather presumptuous to dismiss questions just because they're open-ended, isn't it? Answers to these questions yield more than just "Pick A, B, C or D". I'm not sure whether to take the answer you gave seriously at all, but I'm sorely tempted to drop it based on your attitude.

    I asked the question because I desired a well-considered opinion from everyone.

    Lastly, you aren't a moderator; it's not within your jurisdiction. :)
     
  11. um no
    ive seen enough forum topics to know that open ended questions lead to hit and run toilet-wall style "conversation"
    with random people throwing in their 2 cents
    without reading any of the previous posts other than the title
    and i would understand if it was a decent open-ended question but its not
    this one is strictly about semantics
    and the title is misleading
    nobody becomes anything
    its all just titles
    formalities
     
  12. So lets do only polls, as discussions don't work!
     
  13. I find that when it comes to questions, its importance tends to differ wildly with respect to different people. It's not a decent question to you, perhaps because you see it as a semantic issue, and I can respect that.

    But I see it as an indication of how the magic community views a beginner in magic. It probably means nothing to you, but it does to me.

    Why are you complaining then, if it's me who's asking the question?
     
  14. Exactly. That is my opinion.
     
  15. Oh my gosh! This really bothers me. If people don't like a thread, then don't look at it. It might help other people. But if it is such a waste of a thread then don't comment on it and just leave it alone. No one wants to click on a thread and see people complaining about it.
     
  16. oh please EugeneSoh, dont start with that bull****. There are plenrty of wannabes who wish they could only do magic like their other friend. They have desire for magic or whatever but they are soo bad that when they perform the audiences are never interested. I think you are a magician once you have obtained a certain amount of skill, you can astonish audiences, and you have good patter.
     
  17. #18 Aos, Apr 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2008
    im saying with open-ended questions like these that are _completely_ open to interpretation you _cant_ have a discussion
    there is no conversation
    its _very_ spam inducing
    i dont like penny jar topics

    ma·gi·cian
    (noun)
    one who performs magic for entertainment or diversion
    thats _all_ it is
    you are trying hard to make it much more than it is

    'not a real magician' is insult
    thats _all_ it is
    examples
    1
    since magic is considered art by some
    if one attempts to do magic but doesnt understand the theory
    he might be called "not a real magician"
    it is meant that he is not a master magician
    2
    professional magicians have to worry about putting together a 'set'
    a routine that flows and is well thought out to give the audience maximum enjoyment
    if a magician simply does random tricks he may be called 'not a real magician' by those who worry about routines
    it is meant that he is still a hobbyist
    3
    magicians often create their own effects
    so they might call those who _always_ use other people effects 'not real magicians'
    it is meant the the person is still a beginner
    4
    'not a real magician' is also a vague insult that is used on people who know relatively few magic tricks
    by those who know much more
    it is meant the person is a noob
    5-oo
    infinitely many more reasons

    as you can see its all very elitist
    anybody who performs magic is a magician
    the only debate is how good they are
    'not a real magician' is only a saying which means 'poor magician'
    it has no literal meaning
     
  18. (not attacking in any way...) Aos, you are a very negative person, every time I see a post with your name on it, you have something negative to say.

    Anyways, with regards to the topic, I have actually taken my first large step to persuing a career as a full-time magician. I am now employed by 4 organizations in town, and will be soon doing a large performance in the jebraltor room with ticket sales.

    This is the path I am persuing to become a magician. I do believe that when you feel you are a magician, you are a magician. When someone calls you a magician, others call you a magician. It is when you feel that the time is right, that you become a magician. For me, it is when I take my first-to-last step on and off that stage in the months to come. For you, it could be entirely different, but if you continue to persue your potential in magic, then you will find exactly what you are looking for.
     
  19. man
    you have the definition of the word magician right in your signature
    it seems you people are making this out to be much more than it is
    'magician' is not a title that you get crescent with
    a magician is somebody who performs magic
    you become a magician when you start performing magic
    end of topic
    why must we wax poetics for pages?
    this is so simple
     

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