I've been using Bicycle products for years now, and was just wondering if and when there will ever be a new standard in playing card material. I know they obviously couldn't give specifics, but is it even close to possible that they're working on 100% plastic or other type of material playing cards that have an air-cushion-type finish and same thickness? I'm aware of the Bicycle Prestiges, but those feel quite a bit different than an average Bicycle playing card. And I'm just not talking Bicycle, I'm also referring to Bee, Tally-Ho, and the other amazing brands that they put out. Imagine 100% plastic alternatives that have the subtle differences in feel and finish of Bikes, Tallys, and Bees. Everyone knows the quality of paper products in this day an age are degrading fast, and in another 5 or so years it'll be even worse. Say one year the USPCC just can't get the standard they demand out of the then-current paper stock, then what? Also, a plastic deck that feels and handles exactly like a paper one would be great for players and card flourishers alike. Flourishers espically don't like plastic cards because they don't want to compromise handling for durability, but in this day and age isn't there ways to have both? Thanks for reading! -Peter
Will Plastic Playing Cards Ever be Good for XCM?
- Thread starter ToaOfFlameX
- Start date
If anyone here knows what the USPCC is planning, they're probably not allowed (by law) to talk about it. As pure speculation, I doubt that the USPCC is putting much effort into developing plastic cards, as the increase in production costs would not benefit their primary customers (Casinos), who don't use cards until they're worn out anyway. The people who have regular games at home aren't that concerned with quality beyond the ability to shuffle and deal. They may buy a few decks a year at most, and given that their motivation for replacing decks is probably more along the lines of "We lost it" than "It got worn out", I don't see much percentage in developing sturdier cards with them in mind. Magicians make up a significant market, I'm sure, but I doubt they care enough to worry about plastic cards either. If anything, magicians would have to make sure the plastic cards are cleaned, so they'd end up having to replace them anyway. Flourishers are not a large market, so there's quite possibly no benefit in catering to them.
I have not noticed or heard anything about the paper degrading. As far as I can tell, higher quality paper cards are becoming more and more available. Where are you getting your information?
Personally I don't think there's going to be much development, if it's even possible to have the same feel and handling out of plastic cards.
Well first off there are plenty of highly regarded plastic cards. I have never used them so I can't say if they will meet the needs of flourishers. They are more common in gambling rooms(though I believe more so in Europe than the US) Most big US casinos still use black liner board. Plastic seems to have a reputation. Either they are super high quality, ie. $20.00 / pack, or they are complete crap. Until something in the medium range can be produced I doubt you will see more on the market than there already are. Plain fact is that a $2.50 pack of paper Bicycle cards will last the average laymen/ weekend poker player over a year. Even with the rise of the custom card market the average weekend card player is still the biggest share of the card market. So quite frankly...they have no need for a plastic deck.
I believe that USPCC already owns the KEM card company. If not USPCC direct then I'm certain it is USPCC's parent company, Jarden Corp. So the capacity to make high quality plastic cards already exists within, or at least in the same sphere as, USPCC. It is the market that doesn't exist at this time.
Paper quality isn't a completely lost cause. The last decade the North American Timber industry has been hit pretty hard with beetle blight and fires. If they can turn the corner on that, the industry should improve, which should in turn effect the mills. I'm honestly not sure how much those issues effect the mills but I assume they must have something to do with the problem. There certainly are other problems I'm sure but the bottom line is that timber is a renewable resource. Europe has 400 year long forest plans, and as a result they have a steady timber industry that is less effected by climate effects. Most "printing" forums seem to credit the German Black Liner board as the best card stock currently available. I can attest that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the card stock used by the European printers.
So long story short, there is nothing to suggest that the minor blips in stock quality over the last few years will be permanent. Timber will recover, the mills will recover, and the printers will recover. If plastic ever replaces paper it will be because of choice not destiny. From an environmental standpoint I'l rather they be on paper and glue. Trees and horses grow back!
I believe that USPCC already owns the KEM card company. If not USPCC direct then I'm certain it is USPCC's parent company, Jarden Corp. So the capacity to make high quality plastic cards already exists within, or at least in the same sphere as, USPCC. It is the market that doesn't exist at this time.
Paper quality isn't a completely lost cause. The last decade the North American Timber industry has been hit pretty hard with beetle blight and fires. If they can turn the corner on that, the industry should improve, which should in turn effect the mills. I'm honestly not sure how much those issues effect the mills but I assume they must have something to do with the problem. There certainly are other problems I'm sure but the bottom line is that timber is a renewable resource. Europe has 400 year long forest plans, and as a result they have a steady timber industry that is less effected by climate effects. Most "printing" forums seem to credit the German Black Liner board as the best card stock currently available. I can attest that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the card stock used by the European printers.
So long story short, there is nothing to suggest that the minor blips in stock quality over the last few years will be permanent. Timber will recover, the mills will recover, and the printers will recover. If plastic ever replaces paper it will be because of choice not destiny. From an environmental standpoint I'l rather they be on paper and glue. Trees and horses grow back!
Plastic cards don't feel, or weigh the same as their paper cousins. Therefore they won't "behave" the same way in your hands during XCM flourishes. So much of that ..err.. "art form" (??) comes from muscle memory dealing with movement, weight, and touch/feel that an artist(?) may find it significantly harder if not out right impossible to perform with plastic cards.
To that extent I can also say that plastic cards suck for general magic purposes as many utility moves such as doubles, and glides don't work right with them. Probably because of the same properties that make them impractical for XCM use.
To that extent I can also say that plastic cards suck for general magic purposes as many utility moves such as doubles, and glides don't work right with them. Probably because of the same properties that make them impractical for XCM use.
Have you ever seen "Hit the Road" with Lee Asher and Paul Wilson? That run up that Rod The Hop does with the Kem Cards is one of the coolest feats of sleight of hand I have ever seen. Then he does a cascade control with them as well. That guy has got some chops!