July 5th, 2008

dM - Artist Manifesto Part II

Part II of several videos captured in uncut form during the Dangerous production - discussing d+M's background, outlook on magic, and thoughts on performance.

d+M

40 Comments

You must be logged in to post a comment

dbmagic416 years ago

omg hes totally right.

Kidex17 years ago

Very clever speech! He play's with the words! d+M Rock's -kiD

magic rocks17 years ago

wat i think daniel is tryin 2 say is tht we hab 2 move on like everythin else is more new paper fans changed 2 electric fans an washin boards 2 washin machines everythings got to change even magic imagine if u did the same trick everyday how long will u keep doin it u will get bored of it u will change the trick thts wat daniel is tryin 2 say (thts wat i think) it doesnt mean tht rabbits comin out of hats is borin its just tht it has 2 change

Mikkyo17 years ago

I actually dropped out of magic some 15 years ago because I felt it to be stale. It was the mindset at that time. I got back into magic just recently after running into a d+m video online while researching something completley different. I watched a few more of his vid.s and said to myself "holy s***, who is this guy?" New life, new blood. Thanks Daniel. Truly. Much respect for your efforts.

MitchDaniels17 years ago

Daniel, What do you think of Nate Staniforth? Mitch

datskanars17 years ago

i completely agree with Tyler Johnson and D+M. I have used a lot of older material and have created my own effects inspired from them.But Some of the older magicians wont let you present your magic with your own style but they would push you into that older (tall hats and magic wands as Daniel said))presentation style which i think it is kinde disrespectfull toward the audience. Also if you respect your spectators and make them understand that you are a normal person much greater reactions are guaranteed. Daniel might have pushed it much with "magic is dead" as others have said but if you think of it and read the the comments you will see that it is based on true facts and i completely agree with him. Do not forget that Daniel has created insane effects(like BOUND and MEMENTO) that a lot of older magicianns hadn't even dreamed of.Idont think he would be the great underground artist he is today if he had been influenced by those traditional magicians. George

ma13857718 years ago

He knows what the essence of magic really is?!? it's dead! Underground magic forever!!!

James Wise Magic18 years ago

Very well said!!!

amkov18 years ago

i always looked for a good way to explain what u just did... :) thanks Daniel, very Well put Tai

Isaac Kane18 years ago

Daniel You rock...

Isaac Kane18 years ago

you rock Daniel...

d+M18 years ago

Harapan, we're not rebelling and we're not taking anything away from them, it was traditional magic that led us to create T11, a place for people who aren't accepted by traditional magicians and hopefully through T11 they will understand our goals and attitudes and the reasons why we want our magic to be different to theirs. It's not about cool packaging, it's about the presentation of modern magic, modern magic being respectful magic, once again touching on the way it's presented as real, as opposed to the standard tacky patter... We're real people doing amazing magic, we're not a bunch of magicians doing tricks. I agree with you Sinful, my references to traditional magicians are aimed at those who refuse to accept modern magic and can't adapt ultimately locking their magic in one place not allowing for progression, which doesn't allow the image of magic to improve past the points of all the cliches. I am not an angry person (or a teenager) (and i love my parents) and am not having a pop at oldies, some of my closest friends are 60 year-old magicians who support Theory11 and are completelly anti-traditional... It's not about age, it's about attitude and how magicians could make magic so much better if they used their skills and knowledge in the right way. This is a video of me answering questions, I'm not right or wrong, it's my opinion and is in no way an argument. I love to hear and read all of your opinions and i've enjoyed all of your thoughts on this subject. Remember, this doesn't sum Theory11 up in any way, this is merely one of the many things that Theory11 have done very well to confront and combat an ongoing and neverending forum topic. I'd rather focus on making magic better than spend time trying to justify my reasons why. True D

Tyler Johnson18 years ago

Many times I've run into "older" magicians, which are magicians from ten or twenty years ago, and it seems as if they don't respect me. I get quite annoyed when I was learning from the Trilogy because when I told them I was, they replied with a, "No, don't watch that. You shouldn't have bought that DVD, it's a rip-off. Older books are better and you should get them." It seems as if they are holding me back and not allowing me to break off into my own modern style. When I do break off into my modern style, they basically freak out. With the older magicians I know, I'm an outcast because of the magic I do. Because I don't sit there with a wand and do things, and I don't crack corny jokes, and I don't act all formal and pompous. I do my own style of performance, comfortable, laid back, and normal. But I get crucified for doing so. So, I completely see where Daniel is coming from and I couldn't agree more. Now, know that I'm not saying ALL "older" magicians are bad and I'm not saying that "older" magic is bad. All I'm saying is that they like to hold younger magicians away from their own modern style and they try to push them into the "older" magicians mold. The best way to describe the way "older" magicians act is corny. I actually went to a magic show of an older gentlemen this summer and watched as he performed with his "old" corny presentation. As I watched, his tricks were okay, but the crowd was not responding in amazement at all. Why? Because it was the same old cookie cutter mold of a magician that they have seen before. It was the same act they had seen at several birthday parties and other events. So Daniel, keep up the good work, keep spreading around the word, and keep progressing magic just like you are. It really needs it! Tyler

AdrianFF18 years ago

@ harapanong You should check out show off 3 by Brian Tudor and see his opinion on old school magicians. In comparison with Brian Tudor, Daniel is quite gentle on the subject.

AdrianFF18 years ago

I really can't take a side on this one (even though the topic is really intresting).I love the new style artists like Dan and Dave or Daniel Madison but then again I like classic magicians to (Lennart Green , Guy Hollingworth).

harapanong18 years ago

Haha.. yes, I have heard of Tudor's infamous ranting on Showoff 3. But your point is..? Just because Tudor's harsh, it doesn't make gentle Daniel correct (or at least, doesn't make me agree with his statements.) - harapan. magic!

Sean.Cinco18 years ago

Wow...Daniel just summed up all the words and feelings I have towards magic in two and a half minutes.

d+M18 years ago

... that says ‘traditional magic is good, but can be improved and adapted to a modern performance style.’ I’m not saying that the audience WILL feel disrespected by the traditions; I’m saying that from experience, respecting them with the human touch will go so much farther, for the performer and his reputation, which ultimately creates the stigmas of his generation. And you are correct, it’s at the magicians’ peril how he decides to perform and express his magic, and to wrap up, we have no problem with traditional magic, but the obstacle created by traditional magic is a problem, and we’re here to do our best to solve it to better the art of modern magic. True d+M

googleturf118 years ago

I have to agree with harapan; this video just seems like advertisement to theory11 to get people not to buy stuff from the "old timers." Although d+M is not quite as angry, if thats the right word, at the old school magicians as Tudor, I don't think that calling theory11 the "gathering place for the new era of card magic" is really founded at all. Come on guys, theory11 is a MAGIC WEBSITE trying to sell their magic; is it really that new age/underground/AWESOME or is it just advertising? Consider that Witness by Lee Asher is being sold at 20.00 bucks a pop and advertised by theory11 as "underground magic." I don't understand what's underground about it at all, as it was released by Lee Asher on his website on a ten dollar PDF along with about four other effects... I mean what's so different about theory11, the "underground magic and cardistry epicenter," and penguinmagic and ellusionist? Maybe the quality of some of their products is 'cooler' and better designed, but how is it "underground magic" at all? Harapan is spot on when he talks about people "grouping together" and the whole idea of a teenager vs. his parents. There truly is no evidence to support that we view old-time magicians as "corny" and all. If anything, this new school magic and flourishing is no better at all; I sometimes show some friends a flourishing video online that I found pretty cool and they just don't get it. They say "wow, they're all geeks who sit at home and wave their arms in funny circles and masturbate with their cards."

eWa11ing18 years ago

I'm not saying to "rebel". I'm saying that many older magicians who are very traditional in style need to understand that you don't have to act exactly one certain way to perform magic. Yes, there is a point to where you need to have respect for the art when you perform. But you don't have to keep with the traditional style of performing.

Sinful18 years ago

I feel we as a group should have all the respect in the world for the "old timers". Let us not forget Dan, you are typically talking about stage magicians (even though most still aren't like that anyway). Almost all strolling magicians do not act like this as that is not what they are going for. Let's look at Theory 11's own Aaron Fisher. He seems like a very traditional type of of card magician. However, he isn't saying to anyone "Now watch the ace. ABRACADBRA!" I think that the examples you are giving are almost unfair as that is the most cliche image of a magician. Sure, a lot of classic stage magicians do pull bunnies out of hats. A lot still do it today, but you are looking at this point a small group of magicians. Chris Kenner has been in the magic business for a VERY long time, but you don't see him with this type of personality. Lee Asher has been into magic since he was just a little kid. Once again, you don't see him acting like this. I feel you are talking about a small group of magicians and making them seem like they make up the majority of "old timer" magicians which is just unfair. I will agree though that when a lot of magicians get really good... they build up this ego that they are better than everyone else. That is just something we will have to live with. Jerks will be jerks. There is nothing we can do. However, most will still remain their kind and friendly selves and realize that they are not better than everyone else. I have to disagree with you a little bit Dan. Magic is not dead. It's not full of life either. It's struggling. Once again... look forward to my little video (whenever I get around to making it). -Doug

harapanong18 years ago

1. Then again, how is this "underground magic" different from the close up magic of the past, besides the "cool" packaging? 2. Is there any way to show that the audience's conception of magic is often wrong? (Tuxedos, bunnies etc) I've never encountered someone who had that view of magic. Let's see some kind of proof.evidence before we continue making the overused argument about audiences thinking magic is cheesy. - harapan. magic!

Dima18 years ago

A very good argument but i don't think the problem lies with other "older" magicians but with an audience's misconception of magic itself. That's what T11 are doing well, introducing new/underground magic to others, to the world.

harapanong18 years ago

Does that mean we should have a rebellious attitude, group together on T11 and somehow try to "rebel" against "tradtional magic"? Why don't we try to let the "old-timers" understand how we do magic, our views on magic and hopefully, peacefully resolve this "generation gap"? This video seems to be like a teenager going "My parents don't understand me at all, I hate them". That's the feeling I got after watching it. - harapan. magic!

eWa11ing18 years ago

Agreed, I have looked around my local magic shops and theaters for a place to be and perform for older magicians so that I can be critiqued by someone in the real world, but whenever I have gone to these places they have been disrespectful to me because I am not dressed in a tuxedo and I don't use the traditional words and phrases that are copied from magician to magician. They won't accept me for who I am and how I perform magic for an audience. E*W

d+M18 years ago

...from an empty wallet when you’re walking down the road? Why dress like a waiter?’ And then to see a thousand other magicians doing exactly the same thing, wearing exactly the same clothes, with a white rabbit, and a black wand… none of these magicians have done anything to favour their acts, they’re simply ‘magicians’ who do ‘magician’ things with rabbits etc… No creativity, no originality. I think it’s a little bit impressive that a rabbit can be produced from an empty hat, but it’s nothing more than clever, it’s very pointless and to call that ‘magic’ is disrespectful to the audience as magic is supposed to be a wonderful and enchanting thing. How enchanting can a fat rabbit in a hat be? If that magician explained that he had walked around on stage for a half hour with a rabbit sat on his head under his hat chewing his hair I would be more impressed. Magic should be at least a little bit relevant. How relevant is a rabbit to anything the magician is doing on stage? An eagle or a death-cobra would have got a lot more respect (just kidding, although I do hate rabbits.) Lets look at a modern underground magician… Tom Isaacson will go out there with real people, turning dollars into hundreds without dressing it up with a wand or stupid patter, it’s real, it’s more powerful and it’s absolutely relevant. If Tom had turned the dollars into rabbits using a wand and saying ‘abracadabra’ he would have been laughed at, maybe even insulted. You are right that we have taken a lot of old concepts, but we have improved on them and been able to adapt them to our style which I feel is absolutely respectful to magic as an art older than any of us. We’re not trashing traditional magic; we’re simply saying that T11 is modern, up-to-date… relevant and we’re taking on the title ‘underground magic’ as OPPOSED to ‘traditional magic’ and NOT AGAINST it. We have utter respect for a lot traditional magicians and with the T11 releases we always have an underlying subtext...

d+M18 years ago

In addition and to answer harapan, there are no worries about the top-hat generation, top-hats, wands, tuxedos etc are examples of the stigmas in magic that I believe provide a wall between the performer and spectator, these stigmas carry certain imbed messages such as ‘I’m a magician,’ and in turn the title ‘magician’ carries more stigmas such as, ‘I can do things that you can’t, hey everybody, come take a look at how good I am’ – maybe that last bit is exaggerated a little but you get the idea. Magic shouldn’t be about a superior being but unfortunately because of the attitudes of traditional magicians, it is. Underground magic has its own place, as a separate entity, and we’re trying to set our own image and attitude which will allow new and better-representative and positive stigmas. We’re finding our own league and following our own rules and one of the most important things, in my opinion, is to take the ego away from the performer, as in my experiences, the connection made between the performer and the audience can be the most powerful part of the act. To build rapport and gain that solid connection we cannot post ourselves above our audience, we’re not better than them; we are a part of them, they are the stars as they apply the life to the effect, so respect for them is vital. Traditional magicians tend to demand respect for the trick, our aims are to deserve respect for our act and ability to make magic a human experience; we’re not saying ‘we’re magicians’ we’re saying ‘we’re normal people just like you and we have something interesting to show you.’ Regarding the traditional stigmas, I do think they are disrespectful; I always have, even as a child. My granddad was a famous magician in Russia many years ago and as a kid I never had any interest in any of his tricks as I saw them as patronising as they demanded me to believe that a rabbit would mysteriously appear from an empty top-hat, I thought ‘why a rabbit? Why a top-hat? Why not make money appear...

ShadowOfMagic18 years ago

I completly agree with everything that you just said!!! So true!!!

harapanong18 years ago

Why is everyone still so worried about magic being "wands and top hats and tuxedos"? Daniel said "underground magic is more... respectful to the spectators compared to traditional magic". How is tradtional magic not respectful to the spectators? Just because they use rabbits and sponge balls? What kind of "newer magic" can be found at Theory11? I would say almost all, or at least many of the tricks sold on this site have a lot of basis on old tricks. Think about Prophet, Digital Dissolve, TnR, Control, Distortion... Isn't that taking old tricks and adapting it to the new generation, something that Daniel says is "too forced"? Why does this video reek of an "we hate traditional magicians, because tradtional magicians hate us" attitude? Are you sure "tradtional magicians" hate us? Are you sure we hate "tradtional magic"? Are you sure our audiences would hate "wands, top hats and tuxedos"? I mean, it's every magician's (oh sorry, that would be "underground magician's") own choice to express magic in their own way, I respect that, but I just have doubts over what you said in this video. - harapan. magic!

CoryOOreo18 years ago

Wow, you guys are taking this the wrong way. Superficiality doesn't get you anywhere. Hate to be harsh.

JoeCarr18 years ago

that is 100% true, i dont actually agree with some of the things said by daniel, look at it this way TNR=Classic torn asunder Prophet=Easy Money Distortion=Moving pips (not that old) Digital Dissolve=Steve Dusheck copper/silver Control=Very classic trick all adapted from old tricks and concepts, these would not exist without the past ones..

copperfield 1418 years ago

Finally someone said it.Annoying old magicians trying to act cool in the new generation. Daniel rulez. Yes with a Z that how we do it now. lol

Maximonti18 years ago

Thats not what he said...He said old magicians trying to adapt old effects not realizing that they need to move on.