A $1000 Dollar Routine

Oct 9, 2007
55
0
Australia
Hey Guys,

Wow, I just received a newsletter from Steve Fearson. In that mail, was an effect entitled H.C.E. by Paul Vigil. Steve state's that"
YOU CAN LITERALLY MAKE YOUR LIVING AND YOUR REPUTATION OFF HCE ALONE" and I was thinking, "WOW" it must be one hell of a trick. So I thought, I might check this little piece of amazement. H.C.E. cost $1000 American Dollars. That is a crap load of money to fork out.

So, Im asking you guys. Would you pay $1000 Dollars for a card effect or any kind oof magic effect? even if your just a hobbyist.

P.s. If you are interested in checking H.C.E. out, here's the link http://paulvigil.blogspot.com/
 
Jan 13, 2008
1,137
0
It depends. Personally, being as cheap as I am, and for the most part a hobbyist, probably not. But, if I was a working professional, and I really thought this full routine (that's what you're getting--a full routine, not a card trick and some example applications) would help me in some way, then by all means I would get it.

See, it's a full routine. He gives you the full script--patter, every nuance, plus the method. Some professionals have paid more or less for full routines (although usually they're the only one who can purchase it); he's decided to sell it to numerous people, it seems.

Also, it's not a "card effect"...it's a mentalism effect that utilizes cards as a prop. :)

But no, no I would not pay $1000 for an effect, seeing as I do not make my living as a professional magician. Were I to, though, then by all means--reading every audience member's mind wouldn't be a bad effect to add to your repertoire, heh. :)
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
I don't know. Again, like cm, I don't make my living as a professional magician. But I do have at least two routines I know that I could, in time, perform as individual half hour shows, featuring just that one effect, for considerable money per show - If I committed myself to becoming a magician full time. So I can definitely understand if someone put up their hand and said, "Yeah, I'll pay that much for it". And if I were aiming to be professional mentalist, and I had the money, I'd consider it.

Also, from his three previous releases - I trust his material, which is very important.
 
Paul Vigil puts out solid material and has a reputation for being one of the most significant minds in contemporary magic. It's sad to admit, but the industry generally puts out a lot of garbage. And that garbage is often mixed with quality magic that is cheapened by artists who agree to sell themselves short by putting their life's work on DVDs for a meager 30 bucks or less. Although many people won't agree, I think it's refreshing to see someone recognize the value of his work.

From what I understand, HCE is a full 30-minute routine. Most people go through (well over) a thousand dollars worth of books, DVDs, and resources to find material to construct a quality 30-minute routine. From that alone, I believe the effect may be worth the purchase. I've heard some great things about this piece, and I'm very much interested in pursuing it. I plan to apply for the effect in a few weeks when I'm finally back in the states.

The $1,000 price tag honestly doesn't faze me. I'm sure it's well worth it. It's one of the few measures he's taking to ensure the exclusiveness of the effect. I think that's admirable.

RS.
 
I came across this very routine about a week ago via Mr. Noblezada. Needless to say I went through the same thing. Who would pay that much? Then I thought it over, this product is for professionals and is priced to keep it that way. Also, those who purchase this product and perform it will easily be worth more and therefore charge more per show.

I am personally going to apply to purchase this product because I view it as an investment in my own career rather than a simple purchase.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
Have you ever seen Paul Vigil perform, or performed any of his material? Paul is the furthest thing you can get from a "scandalous idiot", believe me. His material is ALL top class, amongst the best and most consistent in terms of releasing material. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced I would spend that much.

I agree with Romeo. It's the same, I think, as when you put yourself out there on the market for the first time. I charge what I think I'm worth, and respect to Paul for daring to charge what his routine is worth.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Paul has a ton of creative effects. I've heard things about his card effect that is essentially like a Mentalist version of Do as I Do. It's also pretty cheap ( I think around 30 bucks for the PDF)
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
Would it be worth it? I have no doubt that the effect could be a very powerful effect and the value could far outway the cost of $1000. However I would not purchase it. For one simple reason and that is that it is Paul's effect. If you will be using his patter, his effect essentially being an Vigil clone. I my effects should all be about me and the audience. Bob Cassidy and many others have talked about this, if you take this seriously every effect you ever perform should be hand crafted by yourself so you are 100% happy with the outcome.
 
Have you ever seen Paul Vigil perform, or performed any of his material? Paul is the furthest thing you can get from a "scandalous idiot", believe me. His material is ALL top class, amongst the best and most consistent in terms of releasing material. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced I would spend that much.

If he is so good, why is he wasting is time on marketing and selling his best routines? Money. That's what it comes down to. He could be the best magician in the world, but once you start doing stuff like this, respect is lost.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
If he is so good, why is he wasting is time on marketing and selling his best routines? Money. That's what it comes down to. He could be the best magician in the world, but once you start doing stuff like this, respect is lost.

Wait, you're complaining that possibly one of the best working mentalists today is marketing his routines?

Why shouldn't he sell his routines? Why do you go to work? Money. Does that mean I shouldn't respect you? Why does anyone release magic? Of course money will be a factor. Money was a factor when DG first released Torn. Do you not respect him too?

I see this in two ways.

Firstly, a magician will not keep the same repertoire the entire way through his career. Eventually, things will change. When they do, why not let a routine go by contributing it to the magical community?

Secondly, putting an extremely high price on work is simply a valid way of recognising the value of a routine and containing its usage. For example, a fact of life is that material will be illegally downloaded. Why on earth wouldn't you try and prevent this, if you could? By doing this, he can restrict the release of his material to filesharing sites. And he is open about the value of his routine. I do not think that the price is gratuitous. I don't know if you realise this but these are routines which are an entire act, and which can earn the performer a few grand per show. It actually triples or more its purchase price in one show!

Money will always be an issue. But there is so much more to the art. And anyone who realises that this is the case, and knows anything at all about Paul's material, would know the same.
 
This is where you are branching off into two different topics completely. Professionalism is NOT art. The art of making money maybe, but professionalism does not lead to art, or vise versa. Im talking about the art, not about the money.

Sure you have valid points there, but wouldnt a better way be just showing it to few rather than to market it to the "community"? Is magic really all come down to making money?


I respect and agree with what you are saying, i just despise the very idea of charging other magicians for magic. This is by far the only "art form" that makes money off fellow "artists".
 
Have you ever seen Paul Vigil perform, or performed any of his material? Paul is the furthest thing you can get from a "scandalous idiot", believe me. His material is ALL top class, amongst the best and most consistent in terms of releasing material. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced I would spend that much.

I agree with Romeo. It's the same, I think, as when you put yourself out there on the market for the first time. I charge what I think I'm worth, and respect to Paul for daring to charge what his routine is worth.

I won't even dignify a response to this post except for one thing. If your standing tall protecting the very idea of selling a MAGIC TRICK yes, I'll say that again a magic trick not the everlasting lightbulb or a stage illusion that contains high end materails and cost or the cure for cancer it's just a magic trick. I'll never cease to be amazed at the gullability and vulnerability of certain consumers. I'm sorry if you think I don't know who he is but trust this when I tell you I know more than you think and the very idea of selling something and put a tag on it claiming it to be the best magic trick that exist is plain and simply stupid. I'm done with this thread if you have so much to say and you want to come to his defense then I tell you put your money where your mouth is and buy the trick. My respect went out the door the very moment I read the advertisment. Peace!
 

Justin.Morris

Elite Member
Aug 31, 2007
2,793
888
Canada
www.morrismagic.ca
I won't even dignify a response to this post except for one thing...

lol


It definitely peaks my interest, but I cant get over that there are other effects that are very good that present a similar experience (simply as far as effect goes), as many other tricks on the market that are much more affordable. Granted you name 20+ spectators cards and the tossed out deck say is only 5-6, but isn't it really the same to the spectators, but it just takes a lot longer? (that said, do you think by the 17th person it would get boring? I suppose it would have to move fairly quickly)


Hmm, what do you all think?
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
This is where you are branching off into two different topics completely. Professionalism is NOT art. The art of making money maybe, but professionalism does not lead to art, or vise versa. Im talking about the art, not about the money.

Sure you have valid points there, but wouldnt a better way be just showing it to few rather than to market it to the "community"? Is magic really all come down to making money?


I respect and agree with what you are saying, i just despise the very idea of charging other magicians for magic. This is by far the only "art form" that makes money off fellow "artists".

Yeah, like that Dai Vernon guy. How dare he release his material for money? And Theory11, what horrible tools. They should all be shot for releasing material to magicians. Sorry, that comes off as more sarcastic than I intend; I don't mean to be sarcastic towards you, and I don't mean any disrespect towards you, but I hope you can see my point here. I can see where you're coming from. But I just think that releasing something for money doesn't make people bad guys, and I don't see anything wrong with it.

If you create something and are proud of it, sure, you might share it with some close friends. But why not release it to make some money too? Just because one is releasing something for money, doesn't mean that the art has suddenly become about money - that for one would be ignoring the great professional career of Paul as a performer. Releasing something for money doesn't change that. In any case, what's wrong with wanting to make money? Business pervades every facet of life in some way. I think the important question is more, whether this routine is actually worth the money, which I can't say for sure, but judging from Paul's previous releases, I would be highly confident in saying yes anyway.

Every magician buys another's material at some point, and I would venture to say that surely you have too?

Another question: I don't know if you've ever been to an acting class or a painting class? What is that but artists charging money to teach other artists?


@jtmorris: On the point of boredom: Yes, I'd imagine that that would be one of the big pitfalls with creating a routine such as this. What I will simply say is this: I trust that Paul will have worked on this routine enough to make it interesting and bypass that issue. I certainly think that he is a comprehensive enough of a mentalist and performer in general to cover such areas. If I myself were to, theoretically, buy the effect and perform it, then I too would have to make sure that in performing it myself, that this was not an issue due to the way I perform. But I would imagine that the construction of the effect would be solid enough to have addressed that. In the end, I can't say for certain - it is a possibility, but I would simply add that it's very, very unlikely that this would be a problem allowed to remain unaddressed by Paul.

As far as similar effects go, this is true. In answer, I will simply make one comparison. Derren Brown uses effects from Annemann. So technically, you could buy his effect for the routine description in Annemann for very cheap. So what's the difference between the effect in Annemann and the routine we see Derren performing? Professional routining. Timing. Presentation. Variation. Scripting. etc. The list goes on. This, I think, is the mark of a those performers who are not only good but incredible, the top of their field, and this ultimately is what you're paying for - not the method so much as the years of manifestation of Paul's creative vision and development of this effect. If you've ever seen Eric Mead's performance on Fora TV, his construction of his routine is absolutely amazing, though it only contains two effects. Yet it is amongst the best-contructed routines I've ever seen. I look at that and realise how much further I have to go as a magician, and at the moment, I can only express ridiculous amazement at how much creative vision, intelligence and work it would've taken to have put that together - something I can't even begin to fathom, let alone know where to start.
 
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Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
I won't even dignify a response to this post except for one thing.

The motion of "lol" is seconded.

If your standing tall protecting the very idea of selling a MAGIC TRICK yes, I'll say that again a magic trick not the everlasting lightbulb or a stage illusion that contains high end materails and cost or the cure for cancer it's just a magic trick. I'll never cease to be amazed at the gullability and vulnerability of certain consumers. I'm sorry if you think I don't know who he is but trust this when I tell you I know more than you think and the very idea of selling something and put a tag on it claiming it to be the best magic trick that exist is plain and simply stupid.

I can't tell what your point is from the first half of that paragraph. All I can say, from what little I can understand, is that yes, I'm protecting the idea of selling magic. I can't say much more than that because it doesn't make any sense to me, but I would quite appreciate if you would refrain from "dignifying" this post with a further response, unless it makes sense. Sorry, but not everyone hangs onto your every word, hoping that you'll grace our presence.

However:

Please quote where he claims it to be "the best magic trick that exists."

If you can quote that statement, I'll shut up. If you can't, get the **** out and don't make stupid claims like that. Besides which, if you really knew more than I think you do, you'd know that this altogether isn't an uncommon occurrence. For example, Jerome Finley. Even outside of mentalism - cK's $600 Superfly.

I'm done with this thread if you have so much to say and you want to come to his defense then I tell you put your money where your mouth is and buy the trick. My respect went out the door the very moment I read the advertisment. Peace!

Well that's a pretty dumb thing to ask. As I said earlier, if I was working as a professional mentalist, and that was my goal in life, I would. As it stands, I work as an actor. I only ever claimed that the routine would be worth it to professional mentalists. In the future, please read my posts more carefully before you respond, and don't waste my time.
 
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