A $1000 Dollar Routine

Yeah, like that Dai Vernon guy. How dare he release his material for money? And Theory11, what horrible tools. They should all be shot for releasing material to magicians. Sorry, that comes off as more sarcastic than I intend; I don't mean to be sarcastic towards you, and I don't mean any disrespect towards you, but I hope you can see my point here. I can see where you're coming from. But I just think that releasing something for money doesn't make people bad guys, and I don't see anything wrong with it.

If you create something and are proud of it, sure, you might share it with some close friends. But why not release it to make some money too? Just because one is releasing something for money, doesn't mean that the art has suddenly become about money - that for one would be ignoring the great professional career of Paul as a performer. Releasing something for money doesn't change that. In any case, what's wrong with wanting to make money? Business pervades every facet of life in some way. I think the important question is more, whether this routine is actually worth the money, which I can't say for sure, but judging from Paul's previous releases, I would be highly confident in saying yes anyway.

Every magician buys another's material at some point, and I would venture to say that surely you have too?

Another question: I don't know if you've ever been to an acting class or a painting class? What is that but artists charging money to teach other artists?


I dont know man, i do see that making money is obviously a key motive for even wanting to perform magic, its just I see too much of said professionalism, and not enough art, you know?

I know where the guy is coming from, and I do think he is a great performer. I guess its just another branch of magic that I fail to understand, man. Oh well, ill stick to the just creating thing.

Ah yes, I have bought a few books, and one or three DVDs in my day. Yeah I can see what your saying man, i dont like it, but i see what you are saying.


But you dont see any painters going and making DVDs teaching other painters how to paint their masterpieces.
 
These are two completely different types of art.
You cant expect to learn this stuff for free. For over a thousand years magicians have sold their secrets to others. You have to pay,to learn the secret.

Even then, paying to replicate the artists card trick or routine of sorts doesnt contribute to art in anyway. It may contribute to the professional, but not the art.
 
May 1, 2009
140
0
UK
It's very clear Magic has become a Cash Cow from most of the crap out there, & if magic wasn't a cash Cow then there would not be so must crap out just for the sake of it. Then when a pro brings out a decent effect they over price it for there own gain, (Not all pro's do this) giving such excuses as this high price will keep it out of certain hands. Knowing full well there are other ways to sell your work that will keep it out of certain hands.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
Just posting a quick note to say that I think I've said all that I feel needs to be said in defense of Paul, in my mind justifiably so, and will participate no further in this thread. I stand by what has previously been said, and continue to believe strongly in defending whomever I respect. Having said that, I do acknowledge certainly the validity of magicfreak667's opinions and see where he's coming from.

Peace
 
Takes two morons to tango, and I only see one. Besides, I at least am, for one, quite happy to defend someone I respect.

I'm a moron huh? You've made alot of accusations from an obscure point. You can't understand my post so I'll simplify it for so you can understand it. The qoute "Steve state's that"YOU CAN LITERALLY MAKE YOUR LIVING AND YOUR REPUTATION OFF HCE ALONE" Pretty much is saying exactly what I pointed in not so many words as being the best trick available. I was basically saying" If your gonna stand up for the guy then buy his trick". Plain and simply put for you but I didn't attack you or insult you but you plainly attacked and insulted me. So I have nothing else that needs to be said here but one thing. If your naive enough to spend that kind of money on a card trick then whatever else you have to say is mute and pointless. Vigil is a terrific artist I can't argue with you there but the simple fact is I'm not falling for the tasteless marketing schemes from one individual. Go and fetch doggie no more of this tit for tat. Did you hang on to those words good...choke on em.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Aug 18, 2008
680
3
I'm a moron huh? You've made alot of accusations from an obscure point. You can't understand my post so I'll simplify it for so you can understand it. The qoute "Steve state's that"YOU CAN LITERALLY MAKE YOUR LIVING AND YOUR REPUTATION OFF HCE ALONE" Pretty much is saying exactly what I pointed in not so many words as being the best trick available. I was basically saying" If your gonna stand up for the guy then buy his trick". Plain and simply put for you but I didn't attack you or insult you but you plainly attacked and insulted me. So I have nothing else that needs to be said here but one thing. If your naive enough to spend that kind of money on a card trick then whatever else you have to say is mute and pointless. Vigil is a terrific artist I can't argue with you there but the simple fact is I'm not falling for the tasteless marketing schemes from one individual. Go and fetch doggie no more of this tit for tat. Did you hang on to those words good...choke on em.

So you arent going to respond except for the previous few posts...and now this one?
 

Justin.Morris

Elite Member
Aug 31, 2007
2,793
888
Canada
www.morrismagic.ca
So I have nothing else that needs to be said here but one thing.

heh heh (sorry, not picking on you, but I got an honest chuckle)


Takes two morons to tango, and I only see one. Besides, I at least am, for one, quite happy to defend someone I respect.

hey now.. let not get this thread closed because of some out of control egos. There are some good thoughts here. Perhaps this should be the start of a cerca trova discussion. Perhaps a mod should come in this thread and sweep up a bit. It's got potential.
 
Oct 28, 2007
453
0
Sydney Australia
Definitely some extremely stupid posts here that is worth a good laugh =D
$1000 bucks is common for a trick from a pro. Obviously a majority of you guys here do not perform magic professionally for a living (and neither do I) so its unreasonable to say this is extreme marketing and hype, because it isn't.

Just simply ask yourself "Is it worth it?" If not move on, and if yes then consider buying it, pretty simple.
 

Deechristopher

theory11 moderator
Moderator
HCE is something I've been considering, I first saw the speculations and adverts a while back on the cafe and every review I've read of the piece has been a joyous one praising the work.

$1000 is a lot of cash, however, if you are going to use this 30 minute show professionally as some of the guys on here mentioned, I know I'd have made it back about half way through the first performance.

I'm still unsure as to whether I'll pick it up personally as I like performing material that I've put together, but I'm sure that this work is fantastic and I know it'll make a fair few people a lot of money.

Look at it this way, You're a producer franchising a popular play, you think you could get that for as cheap as $1k?

Also, look at the price of stage illusions, if you can command the attention of a theatre of people with no more than a pad and a pack of cards, I'd say that's much more valuable than some large boxes which must be carried around, imagine how much you'd save on shipping! :p

I consider myself to know fairly well guys from either side of this argument and value their opinions equally, but this time, I'll happily support the product in question the same way I would the franchise of any professional performance piece.

Remember this; $1000 is nothing for a capital investment. If the show is as good as it sounds, then you could make your living off it if you're a good enough performer.

Paul won't sell the ebook to people who won't unleash it's potential, so you need not worry about getting stung.

That's my thoughts on the subject!

Best,

DC
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
Hm...
1000...
Ive definately spent more than 1000 dollars on magic, and I wont mind to spend a nother on a single product, but only if it is worth the money in my opinion.
I would not buy this product. Although I love Vigil's work a do perform some of his material regularly as it even fools magicians, I dont think I will feel the happiness on spending 1000 on a card trick. Although it may be a freaking miracle, it is still a card trick. I wont spend 1000 dollars on just a secret... of a trick I havent even seen.
I may happily pay 1000 on the Devils Coke Bottle when I do have the cash, as that trick just looks amazing. I havent seen anyting similiar yet.
But in the end, 1000 just seems a bit much for a card trick/ mentalism act.
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,238
3
I personally think he's another scandelous idiot but thats me.

You obviously are not familiar with Paul or his work then.

Paul is a great guy and a great mind in magic. In my opinion he's one of the most talented performers/creators out there.

If you're curious about just who Paul is and what his standing in the magic community is, check this out.

Here's what Paul Harris had to say about Mr. Vigil: "If I had a gun to my head and had to do something completely 100% astonishing to save my life, I'd hire Paul to do it for me."

Very nice and giving guy, and very brilliant performer and creator.
 
You obviously are not familiar with Paul or his work then.

Paul is a great guy and a great mind in magic. In my opinion he's one of the most talented performers/creators out there.

If you're curious about just who Paul is and what his standing in the magic community is, check this out.

Here's what Paul Harris had to say about Mr. Vigil: "If I had a gun to my head and had to do something completely 100% astonishing to save my life, I'd hire Paul to do it for me."

Very nice and giving guy, and very brilliant performer and creator.

Actually if you guys re-read my other post I cleared the air on Paul as an entertainer I was commenting on the actual subject in hand. Yes I perform professionally and I see this kind of stuff everyday like I previously stated but to reinerate on me commenting after I said I wouldn't that was a different time and different day before being personally insulted then I decided I needed to respond to the post either way think what will if you guys really knew me you wouldn't be posting half the replies your guys are. I say what I mean and I mean what I say, I speak from expereince and trust me when I tell you my expereince in the field probably exceeds 90% of the posters on this thread. I made my comments and I knew I would be attacked for them but thats me I speak with honesty which is more than I can say for most of the T11 community. I chuckle at the mere fact that someones willing to pay this kind of money for a card trick when there are multiple effects that can accomplish the same thing unless your a collector this would make sense. My post has obviously been misconstrued and I admit I'm guilty sometimes of typing to fast without conveying my point clearly sometimes but my point is made and there's nothing else to say about the matter.
 
Dec 14, 2007
817
2
I respect and agree with what you are saying, i just despise the very idea of charging other magicians for magic. This is by far the only "art form" that makes money off fellow "artists".
And magic is the only art where 'artists' are encouraged to take someone else's 'art' and try to pass it off to the public as their own.

Never heard of a painter buying a Picasso, tracing the lines in blue, and trying to sell it in a gallery with their own name on it.

Paul created a solid, working routine which he uses to create moments of amazement for his audiences.

If you want to do the same - with his idea - you should pay him. You have no right to his idea and he deserves to be compensated for his work.

He is hardly 'marketing' it. It is available to those who want to avail themselves. If you want to, you know what you need to do. If you don't, what's the point complaining?

But whether it's a 20$ dvd or a 5,000$ script, if you want to benefit from someone else's creation, then you must do so on THEIR terms.

Sadly, with the sense of entitlement held by so many 'magicians' and the lack of respect for creators and their work, working performers have to be cautious of who sees their material - just go to the magic cafe where you will find hundreds of posts from 'magicians' who have seen someone's show and are now online fishing for methods so they can play 'monkey see' and try to pass someone else's art off as their own.

Paul did the right thing. He requires the student to be vetted, they must demonstrate a sincere commitment (at least financially) to protecting his work, and he has graciously chosen to allow others to benefit from his thought and effort.

Rather selfish to crticize him for caring and wanting to share something with his fellow performers while trying to protect the integrity of our field

How dare he!!!
 
And magic is the only art where 'artists' are encouraged to take someone else's 'art' and try to pass it off to the public as their own.

Never heard of a painter buying a Picasso, tracing the lines in blue, and trying to sell it in a gallery with their own name on it.

Paul created a solid, working routine which he uses to create moments of amazement for his audiences.

If you want to do the same - with his idea - you should pay him. You have no right to his idea and he deserves to be compensated for his work.

He is hardly 'marketing' it. It is available to those who want to avail themselves. If you want to, you know what you need to do. If you don't, what's the point complaining?

But whether it's a 20$ dvd or a 5,000$ script, if you want to benefit from someone else's creation, then you must do so on THEIR terms.

Sadly, with the sense of entitlement held by so many 'magicians' and the lack of respect for creators and their work, working performers have to be cautious of who sees their material - just go to the magic cafe where you will find hundreds of posts from 'magicians' who have seen someone's show and are now online fishing for methods so they can play 'monkey see' and try to pass someone else's art off as their own.

Paul did the right thing. He requires the student to be vetted, they must demonstrate a sincere commitment (at least financially) to protecting his work, and he has graciously chosen to allow others to benefit from his thought and effort.

Rather selfish to crticize him for caring and wanting to share something with his fellow performers while trying to protect the integrity of our field

How dare he!!!

Brad you should know me by now to understand in no way do I not realize the brilliance behind the man nor do I not give him credit for creating top notch material but you out of all people (you) should know that magicians do this type of stuff everyday. Without getting into any names how many times have you seen someone say "We have only 100 copies left", or"Released by invite only" just to get the hype they need to sell their product? I see it everyday so what if this effect is that good, do I have an issue with him selling it for that much money? No. But I stated as before I wouldn't fall for it. With that said I never once said I disliked the man I expressed myself in the terms of the marketing aspect and those that buy into the hype, not to mention half the go sayers that bring themselves to buy this effect are the ones that are into serious collections and hobbyist or pros that that's all they do in that particular area. You average joe blow magician couldn't afford this and maybe that's the point or maybe it was the marketing web I so described either way it wasn't a reflection of his skill I was speaking of. I spoke with frustration in the beginning of the post on how individuals seem to be quick to jump to buy an effect just because it appears to have facial value without true insightful information of what it's desired effect may be but my intentions was only to stir the community to question the product before offering to give a reach around without a purpose.
 
Dec 14, 2007
817
2
Shane,

I can't think of many examples of working pros offering up real world, audience tested materials at any price. I agree that most of the stuff on the market are untested, unfinished pipe dreams - which is why it is a rare gift when someone who has actually performed a piece for years decides to release it.

As for sales techiques such as 'only 100 left' I am not aware Paul is playing that game. In this case, I know he is sincere about the protections he has put into place. They are not marketing ruses - in this case. They are a sincere effort to control the use of and preserve the value of his work and other magician's investment.

Sure, magic pitchmen bombard us with this nonsense, but I would hope an informed readership would know the reputations of the people making the claim and know not to fall for it. Likewise, informed people should know that when a magician of experience is releasing something from his or her personal repertoire, that it has real value.

What I find most interesting is the magic community's response to those rare occasions when an artist releases an item from the working repertoire and choose to put a value on it commisserate with its value in the performance marketplace - the magic community expresses outrage, disgust, and disappointment. Rather than be thrilled that someone has chosen to share something of real value from their working repertoire - something many would be thrilled to present to their own audiences - they throw fits because they don't want to pay the price, they complain that something is overpriced, or that it's somehow wrong for an artist to be able to have some say, some control over how the product of their creativity and work is used.

Unreal.
 
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results