Disgrace or Amazingness?

Feb 27, 2008
2,342
1
33
Grand prairie TX

I honestly didnt get why he kept beating around the bush in that discussion.
The main argument was,if he was using real methods in magic which are sleight of hand or gimmicks or simple camera editing.
And the beef, I assume, is that if he uses editing,dupes,etc then he doesnt deserve the praise of the technical prowess that he gets.
He simply could have said "yes,its pure sleight of hand". Or said the he created a gimmick/s for these feats of smoothness unattainable.
But he didnt.
He went on and on about stuff no one cares about. Thats why everyones on the wire,right?
He claims to sell his stuff,so he should link up some stuff or choose certain people to review it. Thats the reason a creator creates. To sell and produce.
If he wants to keep his "underground" status as a creator thats fine with me. But as to why he creates all this and asks people to subscribe if he's not into selling is beyond me.
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
Are we really going to start this up again?


Basically... lets just settle on the fact that Mark is a hobbyist magician who produces videos on Youtube which fool every magician there is... Dont say you arent fooled by them just because you think its editing. The fact that you narrow it down to editing is that you couldnt think of any other method. Whether his stuff is real or not really isnt much of our business anyways. Its not like hes getting world acclaim for the videos he makes. People who watch his videos are just other hobbyists like us. I find it a bit dissappointing that majority of you are straight out calling his videos fake, just because you couldnt figure it out. Some of it may seem godly, but look at some others. His passes can be easily replicated by other people. His top card cover pass looks very real, so does his dribble. The only proof that you people have for accusing him is "I dont know how he does it."

There are elements of his videos which do suggest that he uses editing: smoothness, cleanliness, impossibility. But none of us can really prove it for sure. He will never prove that his stuff is real nor will he disprove that it isnt. Mark is just that kind of guy.

I talk to Mark quite often and have seen him perform sleight of hand. I know he is capable of performing normal card routines quite well. His sleight of hand is quite skilled. Why he creates these videos and rarely sells them is beyond me. I have asked him to upload a live performance video but he just gave me random excuses.

There are elements to what he says that make me doubt his videos, but once again, I am unable to think of how he edits the videos. Even if he does, those are some damn good editing. Look at his Flash and a Coin video. You can still see the indent the coin made on his hand after it vanished. Thats some damn good editing.

Can we just end the discussions about Mark and let him be? honestly... like... what are you gaining from this anyway? If those videos really are fake, then hes probably getting a great kick out of all the fools hes been ticking off. He hasnt denied anything nor has he proved anything. The fact that he beats around the bush so much just annoys you all doesnt it? I actually find it quite ingenius that he can stir quite a commotion.

Mark may be real, he may be fake. I have no idea... But still I respect what he is capable of doing as he is right now capable of puttin all your knickers in a knot and it makes me chuckle.
 
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Jv

Jan 11, 2008
1,223
26
Alright so i found this guy on youtube and myself and many other people have come to the conclusion that all or atleast the majority of his videos are fake. I mean check out this so called 'classic pass"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlzgRTO1woM

If he really was that good i doubt his magic would be youtube based..

Wow...we really are going to start this again!

Does his skill intimidate you? Or are you one that hates to be fooled?

Wether it's real or fake, just keep it to yourself, complaining about his "so called 'classic pass'" on a forum isn't going to get you nowhere, nor does it make your 'skills' better [not saying you said that, but just saying]!

Edit: Also, please and I mean please, show us some proof that his videos are in fact fake or edited! Without evidence how could I, or we, really take your opinion seriously...I know everyone is entitled to your own opinion, but without any proof that they're fake, then what's the point!
 
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RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
Basically... lets just settle on the fact that Mark is a hobbyist magician who produces videos on Youtube which fool every magician there is...

I don't think he fools every magician there is... see next point.

I find it a bit disappointing that majority of you are straight out calling his videos fake, just because you couldn't figure it out. Some of it may seem godly, but look at some others. His passes can be easily replicated by other people. His top card cover pass looks very real, so does his dribble. The only proof that you people have for accusing him is "I don't know how he does it."

Ahhh, the majority of us really aren't fooled.

In the book "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell, there is a great story about the Getty museum's acquisition of a Greek marble statute. The background check and scientific examination all showed that the statute was genuine. However, Evelyn Harrison (one of the world's foremost experts of Greek sculpture) came to see the statute. When she was told that the Getty museum was about to own it, she said (without thinking) "I'm sorry to hear that." The book details similar subconscious reactions from other scholars. The couldn't say WHY, but each of them on a subconscious level thought the statute was a fake. One scholar termed this subconscious reaction as "intuitive repulsion." Upon further inspection of the documents and scientific explanation (based on all the reactions of intuitive repulsion) the statute was determined to be a fake.

There is something intuitive when trained magicians view a video. If a good magician is performing we will not see the move, but will see the get ready or the clean up. Not that we see a flash, but that we see the necessary motions. In these videos, those motions are missing. Also, our subconscious can perceive more than our conscious and that is what gives us the feeling of "intuitive repulsion" when we view these effects.

There are elements of his videos which do suggest that he uses editing: smoothness, cleanliness, impossibility. But none of us can really prove it for sure. He will never prove that his stuff is real nor will he disprove that it isn't. Mark is just that kind of guy.

Actually, there is more than just "elements" suggesting editing. But I will discuss that later.

However, you seem to know a lot about Mark.

I talk to Mark quite often and have seen him perform sleight of hand. I know he is capable of performing normal card routines quite well. His sleight of hand is quite skilled. Why he creates these videos and rarely sells them is beyond me. I have asked him to upload a live performance video but he just gave me random excuses.

Do you talk to yourself too?

Hmmm. He's never performed these effects for you? Suspicious. If I could make a coin vanish into thin air, I would show the fellow magicians I hang out with.

The most likely reason for the excuses is that he can't perform these effects for a live (non-stooge) audience.

There are elements to what he says that make me doubt his videos, but once again, I am unable to think of how he edits the videos. Even if he does, those are some damn good editing. Look at his Flash and a Coin video. You can still see the indent the coin made on his hand after it vanished. Thats some damn good editing.

Good editing, but not perfect. Many of his impossible videos have tell tale signs of cutting frames.

Just as a note, I don't consider exposing video editing as exposure of magic.

Look at the Flash and a Coin video. Notice as soon as the coin disappears the gap between his fingers is larger (it sort of jumps). Try holding a coin the way he does and, as turning the coin, increase the gap between your fingers. What happens? The coin drops to the floor. If you do the turn slowly the last time and edit out the frames of the dropping (as well as other frames to make the last turn seem at speed), you have the flash vanish. As an added convincer, you also have an indentation.

In the Flash and a Cell Phone, notice how the phone vanishes just before he covers it. OK, that's not enough to prove editing in and of itself, but the impossibility of it raises suspicion. You can also notice at the time of the vanish how his fingers go from half curled to fully extended instantly? Also, more subtle, check his shirt. The wrinkles move at the time of the vanish without any corresponding motion. The wrinkles are indicative of an upward movement in his shoulder. Try dropping your cell phone and you will see that your shoulder moves and your fingers extend. That movement, in combination with the opening of the hand would indicate the cell phone is dropped and that the frames showing the drop are edited out.

In Ms. Pac Man, notice how his right hand goes from half closed (providing cover) to fully closed instantly. If you slow down the movements when the hands meet, don't keep the coin in your right hand but instead let it drop to the floor and edit out the frames showing the drop, you too can do this effect. Also, notice how the forward motion of his right hand abnormally speeds up after the coin is placed (and then dropped).

However, his Passed video appears to be uncut. I can duplicate his "pass" but it isn't really a pass. I won't go into detail here because of exposure, but I can see tell-tale signs that confirm my guess at his method is correct. Let's just say it is an ingenious method for video, but wouldn't work in front of a spectator. Simply put, if he used a riffle force to select the card, would you be that impressed?

Can we just end the discussions about Mark and let him be? honestly... like... what are you gaining from this anyway? If those videos really are fake, then hes probably getting a great kick out of all the fools hes been ticking off. He hasn't denied anything nor has he proved anything. The fact that he beats around the bush so much just annoys you all doesn't it? I actually find it quite ingenious that he can stir quite a commotion.

You seem to be uncomfortable about all the attention this is getting but at the same time enjoying the commotion it has created. Makes me wonder...

The reason people are reacting to this is that camera tricks are not magic. As you point out, this is an attempt to fool magicians who can't figure it out. As that, I applaud it. Let the Youtube folks puzzle their brains out trying to reverse engineer how he does it.

Mark may be real, he may be fake. I have no idea... But still I respect what he is capable of doing as he is right now capable of putting all your knickers in a knot and it makes me chuckle.

I do respect what he is doing too. The videos are well done and the methods of producing them are well thought out. If my theories are correct, there is some great misdirection (the crooked finger in Ms. Pac Man, the faking of various motions in his "pass", etc.) I many ways, that is the same thinking that goes into making an effect believable when performed live.

But what strikes me as strange, if you talk to Mark, wouldn't you know if HE is real? Unless you are him? Is this Mr. Jane all over again? If you are Mark, than well done (for the reasons above). If you are not, then please accept my apologies for the assumption. (Hey, if nothing else it adds a little intrigue to the thread).
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
Yes... I am Mark... You busted me... I look like a 17 year old asian in some of my videos while i look like a 20 year old dutch guy in some others. Great observations my good man.

To majority of the post:
It has fooled every magician. No one knows exactly how he does it. All you have given are possible theories. Please replicate it. Please show some solid proof that what he does is editing. All you have are words and theories, nothing substantial.

p 4: I live in Hong Kong, he lives in Pijnacker ...

2nd last p: I am not at all annoyed at him. I just find it immature how many of the magicians straight out call him fake when there is no substantial proof. No one has been able to replicate it. If you can easily describe the method, why not give it a try? Mark isn't a professional film editor, he just works for a low budget production company. If he has access to such tools and programs, I'm pretty sure some one would have been able to replicate his videos by now...
 
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RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
Yes... I am Mark... You busted me... I look like a 17 year old Asian in some of my videos while i look like a 20 year old Berlin man in some others. Great observations my good man.

That's just a camera trick too.:D OK, so much for my conspiracy theory.

I just find it immature how many of the magicians straight out call him fake when there is no substantial proof. No one has been able to replicate it. If you can easily describe the method, why not give it a try? Mark isn't a professional film editor, he just works for a low budget production company. If he has access to such tools and programs, I'm pretty sure some one would have been able to replicate his videos by now...

I agree, saying he is a fake without substantial proof isn't the best approach. However, what I pointed out is enough to raise significant doubts. As I said, I can replicate his "pass" without video editing.

That being said, I'll consider the challenge (it may be a couple of weeks because I'm out of town through Sunday and I'll need to enlist some help in doing the editing). Hopefully, some others will take the challenge too based on what I theorized as the method. Could be interesting.
 
Mar 2, 2008
412
0
Hmm. (Its more then one person right?)

If it's camera editing or not, what does it matter? They are not selling the effect and if anything its going to make us pick of a deck of cards or a coin and try expermenting witch is for the better.

Assuming all the effects can be done live, it bugs me that the creators are not living up to there potential. They could be lecturing (if they have the performance experince), going to conventions, and talking to the big names in magic with these types of tricks. Witch they are not because everyone would of heard about them by now.
 
Mar 18, 2009
163
0
yeah you can clearly see that the lower half does not move at all. all this guy does is try to fool us magicians by SIMULATING these moves, i have yet to see a video of his that is actually possible. he uses duplicates in every one of his controls, and most of his magic is impossible. it's annoying that he tries to say that he is legit by saying that he sells his effects. no one has ever seen these effects. NO ONE. this guy is not legit. and you can clearly see that in all his videos. or he would be extremely rich and famous.

EDIT: in response to his classic pass video.
 
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Mar 18, 2009
163
0
This is an interesting topic although im not really sure...his classic pass and many other card tricks seem to be fake


But how can he fake this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q9KYhCip0k


Im not sure when I first saw his card tricks i also thought they were fake but i couldnt think of any possible way to fake the coin vanish or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dc3z3nEexg&feature=channel


Im pretty sure those are real since i cant think of any way to "fake" them

but faking the card tricks definately doesnt give out a good vibes from that guy


so im really not sure :(.

hey, things can't just vanish. there literally was no place for the coin to go. this guy tries to make things to clean for his own good. if he is going to be a fake magician at least fake it better. honestly his effects are not possible. at all.
 
Sep 24, 2007
417
1
Why are you guys getting so mad at this guy?

Maybe his effects aren't possible. so what? They're still great pieces of magic.
 
Mar 18, 2009
163
0
This is an interesting topic although im not really sure...his classic pass and many other card tricks seem to be fake


But how can he fake this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q9KYhCip0k


Im not sure when I first saw his card tricks i also thought they were fake but i couldnt think of any possible way to fake the coin vanish or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dc3z3nEexg&feature=channel


Im pretty sure those are real since i cant think of any way to "fake" them

but faking the card tricks definately doesnt give out a good vibes from that guy


so im really not sure :(.

and again. where could the phone have gone, it can't just vanish into thin air. he no pockets for it to go to, and no sleeves. didn't go up his shirt or down his pants. it could not have gone anywhere. it's too clean. nothing this guy does is real. and until i see a method for anything of his like his controls and his flash, im sticking by my opinion. he is fake. no doubt about it.
 
Jul 13, 2009
1,372
0
33
Haha y'll are funny, I suppose now you all should compare screamer videos to actual horror films. They both are different in many ways, yet their aim is the same. Yet you don't see big horror movie buffs fighting onto whether or not a screamer video is or is not a horror movie. You want to know why?

Although a screamer lacks any story and often times really isn't scary, they are two small of a thing compared to the genre as a whole for it to even matter. This is where I find the humor in this little shindig or beef or whatever you want to call it about a man who is putting together good magic videos; it may or may not be recreatable in person but who cares? Youtube magicians are so small compared to the rest of the genre of magic, why are people getting so worked up over it? Why are we so quick to discredit this person, are the magic egos so big that you have to run up to a mule and yell "He is fake."

So what if he is fake, what is it doing to you? It certainly isn't fooling the lay person, it certainly isn't making the shaky handed crotched frame bedroom magicians look better.
 
Sep 3, 2007
1,231
0
This is an interesting topic although im not really sure...his classic pass and many other card tricks seem to be fake


But how can he fake this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q9KYhCip0k

It looks like a coin handling I've used. Sorry I told some people. Or showed some people, my bad. It's just sad that some guy uses it for kicks. Actually, I've only showed one guy that concept. Hence, I know who has stolen my magic ideas.
 
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Sep 3, 2007
1,231
0
Check this out ....
His one handed sandwich... i doubt he used camera tricks with this one


Just turn the sound off and watch it. It's the same antics. Although this one is a bit fake. One of the things I found funny was he "tried" to do a one handed cut. He does a double that I might have invented. This guy seems familiar...

Peace.
 
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May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
For the above posters... Just read the comments people have made before. Jealousy is an ugly thing my friends... Just because you can't figure it out doesnt mean it is impossible. Just because you can't figure it out doesnt mean its fake. Just because you cant figure it out doesnt mean that you have to go to the first explanation that your narrow mind can think of (editing). Just chill out. Mark isn't getting any world recognition for his videos, wheres the problem? Just enjoy the fact that someone has made something which fools you and bask in its glory. it might be fake, who knows... but really... who cares.
 
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