Gimmicks are WRONG?

[WitchDocIsIn]

I wish I had more to add to this conversation, but really I have no problem with gimmicks but don't use many myself. I don't like carrying them in my pockets, so I generally will really limit what I carry to no more than one or two that don't make my pockets bulge.

To me magic is about astonishing the spectator(s). How you do that is pretty much completely irrelevant. If someone could fool me with the old 'tossing stuff over his head' routine, I'd be just as astonished as someone fooling me with clever vanishes.

 

[Kris Deagle]

Your ego knows no bounds does it?

Not on the internet.

 

[William Draven]

Not on the internet.

And there in lays the problem.

 

[Kris Deagle]

And there in lays the problem.

Therein*

Why is there a problem? No-one takes the internet seriously, that's just stupid. If I am being a retard on here, ignore me. Just the same as if you were, I'd ignore you too...I mean, it's different from real life, you can be an idiot on here and it makes no difference. You aren't going to make life long friends with someone on a magic forum. And you shouldn't care what I am like or what I say on the internet...I could be trolling, I could be playing an idiot but regardless, it's the internet, why does everyone get so worked up about something someone says? Regardless of how idiotic it is...it's just the internet.

 

[LuseifHo]

Therein*

Why is there a problem? No-one takes the internet seriously, that's just stupid. If I am being a retard on here, ignore me. Just the same as if you were, I'd ignore you too...I mean, it's different from real life, you can be an idiot on here and it makes no difference. You aren't going to make life long friends with someone on a magic forum. And you shouldn't care what I am like or what I say on the internet...I could be trolling, I could be playing an idiot but regardless, it's the internet, why does everyone get so worked up about something someone says? Regardless of how idiotic it is...it's just the internet.

you're an idiot for saying that.
how does it not make a difference? by writing trash, you waste people's time and effort. Some people actually take into account other people's opinions and use brain power to think about it. We actually consider different sides of arguements and reflect how it may be right and how it may benefit us in some way.
If you find the internet pointless and never take anything written here seriously, then get out. We don't need any more trolls.

PS. that spelling correction was just a weak and douchy move on your part.

 

[Kris Deagle]

you're an idiot for saying that.
how does it not make a difference? by writing trash, you waste people's time and effort. Some people actually take into account other people's opinions and use brain power to think about it. We actually consider different sides of arguements and reflect how it may be right and how it may benefit us in some way.
If you find the internet pointless and never take anything written here seriously, then get out. We don't need any more trolls.

PS. that spelling correction was just a weak and douchy move on your part.

No, the spelling correction was just to help him for next time, it had no weight on the rest of my post.

Also, this is a weak and "douche-y" move but argument* And I only did that because you tried to make me look like a bad guy, I was simply pointing it out for him.

 

[LuseifHo]

No, the spelling correction was just to help him for next time, it had no weight on the rest of my post.

Also, this is a weak and "douche-y" move but argument* And I only did that because you tried to make me look like a bad guy, I was simply pointing it out for him.

no you weren't.
Its so common for someone with a weak arguement to try to find a flaw in the other person, even if unrelated to the arguement at all, just to make them look worse. Makes you look weak as ever though.
and what did you just correct? I dont see it.

 

[Kris Deagle]

no you weren't.
Its so common for someone with a weak arguement to try to find a flaw in the other person, even if unrelated to the arguement at all, just to make them look worse. Makes you look weak as ever though.
and what did you just correct? I dont see it.

It was not part of the argument. And I wasn't arguing, I was simply stating that him caring about me is pointless. And there is only one "e" in argument. That's the difference. (And I said that because you asked, don't get all pissy over that, you asked, I clarified)

 

[LuseifHo]

It was not part of the argument. And I wasn't arguing, I was simply stating that him caring about me is pointless. And there is only one "e" in argument. That's the difference. (And I said that because you asked, don't get all pissy over that, you asked, I clarified)

ah..
indeed.
dont post here if you dont want people to care about you
and you corrected me wrong
i was actually refering to plural arguments.
so yes...

 

[Kris Deagle]

ah..
indeed.
dont post here if you dont want people to care about you
and you corrected me wrong
i was actually refering to plural arguments.
so yes...

Okay, my mistake.

*Arguments

And I didn't post here for people to care, I posted here to answer Casey's question then everyone decided to have a go at me for it. Why bother wasting your time arguing over what I typed? It doesn't change what happened nor does it change about how I feel, just continue with the topic. I have posted in other threads and this was the only one that people actually responded negatively toward.

 

[heavymetalholic]

As said before, Magic only exists for the spectator, So gimmick or no gimmick will not matter if it has the same outcome, I personaly love gimmicks, but do not work with many. Mostly because of pockets space. If someone finds it more pure to achieve the same effect using pure slight of hand, that is ok too. Maybe it makes them feel better on the inside. Just beacuse magic is in the eye of the spectator, does not mean we can't get our personal jolly on, while performing
for some people that is just the thrill of doing knuckle busting slights, without being seen.

There is NOTHING wrong with gimmicks, they make some effects easier and some would not even be achieveable without a gimmick.

 

[Kris Deagle]

There is NOTHING wrong with gimmicks, they make some effects easier and some would not even be achieveable without a gimmick.

Exactly, I have no problem with them, just their overuse.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I'm not sure there's such a thing as overuse. If someone is amazing people left and right, it doesn't matter how they do it, they're still amazing people.

 

[Kris Deagle]

I'm not sure there's such a thing as overuse. If someone is amazing people left and right, it doesn't matter how they do it, they're still amazing people.

If your whole is gimmicks, you don't think that is overuse?

 

[LuseifHo]

If your whole is gimmicks, you don't think that is overuse?

why would there be?
what about an over use of sleight of hand? ah...
and if someone posts to a thread, they usually expect a response... You dont want your response to go unnoticed.
As for why we respond, we want to understand your view and see if there is any reason behind it. We attempt to gain knowledge from other people. Some people here reply negatively... like Steerpike. I would say that 80% of the time, what he says is said purely from the fact that the man just loves to argue and win. But underneath all the swearing and machoman fighting ego, what he says actually makes sense.

 

[William Draven]

If your whole is gimmicks, you don't think that is overuse?

That all depends on the performance doesn't it? If the act is entertaining, and the audience enjoys themselves then no. It's not over use. In fact it's successful. If there is little to no entertainment value and the audience is bored or not having a good time then the act is a failure. The same can be said for your sleight of hand performances too.

You're missing the point of why you perform. It's not about gimmicks or sleights. No school of thought is better than another. It's all about the entertainment value your act provides the audience.

 

[Reapx]

That all depends on the performance doesn't it? If the act is entertaining, and the audience enjoys themselves then no. It's not over use. In fact it's successful. If there is little to no entertainment value and the audience is bored or not having a good time then the act is a failure. The same can be said for your sleight of hand performances too.

You're missing the point of why you perform. It's not about gimmicks or sleights. No school of thought is better than another. It's all about the entertainment value your act provides the audience.

William you hit the nail on the head with that statement. in the end it doesnt matter what you use. the enjoyment of the spectator is what really matters because without them why are we doing any of this

 

[descartes]

This thread is still going strong!!

Exactly, I have no problem with them, just their overuse.

I pointed this out to you before in the thread, but it must have been lost in all the other discussion. Check out Tommy Wonder's magic. He performs a number of tricks which are heavily gimmicked (The vanishing birdcage, The nest of boxes, tamed cards, Rubik's card and so on). He also does great sleight of hand, but many of his effects are impossible without gimmicks. Do you honestly think he is overusing them? What is your definition of overusing gimmicks?

I am also something of a purist, but to argue against "overuse" of gimmicks is just pointless. You have the advantage of doing magic with borrowed items anywhere using just sleight of hand. Your friend does not have that luxury. Why don't you just accept this trade-off and continue tying to do the best magic you can whenever you can.

 

[Kris Deagle]

This thread is still going strong!!



I pointed this out to you before in the thread, but it must have been lost in all the other discussion. Check out Tommy Wonder's magic. He performs a number of tricks which are heavily gimmicked (The vanishing birdcage, The nest of boxes, tamed cards, Rubik's card and so on). He also does great sleight of hand, but many of his effects are impossible without gimmicks. Do you honestly think he is overusing them?

Of course not.

What is your definition of overusing gimmicks?

Using nothing but gimmicks in your routines. If there is some SOH as well, that's fair but not every single trick gimmicked. That's my definition anyhow.

I still want to get that Vanishing Birdcage effect...it is so good.

 

[CaseyRudd]

This is the first time I've seen a LOT of discussion being productive and quality people responding. We all MUST learn something from these past 100 posts, that yes:

HOW THE EFFECT IS DONE DOES NOT MATTER. ONLY IF THE AUDIENCE IS ENJOYING THEMSELVES AND HAVING FUN IS THE REASON WHY WE DO MAGIC AND ILLUSIONS.

So you see? I started this thread to see a magician's point of view on the subject. This was the response I was waiting for. So thank you so much guys for being very active and participating. There is still more to discuss, so if there's anything you would like to add in please do!

Cheers,

Casey Rudd