Gimmicks are WRONG?

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That's my issue with gimmicks...when people think they are more amazing than sleight of hand...sure, they can do amazing things but a magician without them that focuses on them, is screwed and not really a magician at all.

I guess since I do mostly sideshow, and I can tell you that all my props and stunts are REAL that makes you (by virtue of your own logic, and by comparison) a complete fake.

Get off your f-ing high horse you elitist jerk. How dare you step into a forum, with only 19 posts to your account, no established back ground or credits and toss out such a rude and slandering message like that. I know a few magicians who use gimmicks who will make more money in the next ten minutes doing magic related things than you probably will in your entire life. I'll even say one out loud. Criss Angel. Too main stream? Fine. David Copperfield. Oh he's too 1980's? Okay... Penn & Teller. Have I made my point yet?

May I suggest something to you? Grovel.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Or I would do this:

Friend: "Hey! Do that trick again! Here's a deck. Do it!"

Me: "I'll actually do something a LOT better than what I did earlier. Come look...

I personally will just tell them no. If they're a friend of mine telling me that, I'll say one of two things. Either I'm not in a mood to do magic at the time, or I'll say (in a slightly joking tone, but serious enough) "I am not a monkey, and definetly not a trick monkey. I perform what want when I want."

It keeps me in control of the situation. But that's just my personal opinion :)
 
Sep 1, 2007
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Guys, this is getting way out of hand here. Please stop arguing, grow up, and be done with it. Are you guys really that immature to battle over whose opinion is better? For Christ's sake, just stop arguing, this isn't what the thread was supposed to be about. Just express your opinion, and don't fight over someone else's. Thank you.

Being firm is not the same as being negative. And you disappoint me. Opinions are only as good as what they are supported with. They are not a shield and they are not carte blanche. Not all opinions are created equal, and many can be flat out wrong.

If we are not here to discuss what opinions have more merit than others, then this entire forum is just a digital playground for those who mistakenly believe that any dumbass thing they say is acceptable so long as it stands under the banner of "opinions."
 
Mar 29, 2008
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I don't have time to read through all the arguing, but I appreciate what Steerpike says - so here is to moving on to understanding the role of gimmicks.

If you routine your magic, gimmicks don't look like gimmicks.

If your magic looks moveless when using sleight of hand, then gimmicks will look the same not triggering any "tells".

Once you are proficient at sleight of hand - you can introduce gimmicks without suspect.

I posted an essay that was published by a friend (Alan Grose) that used martial arts as an analogy to using gimmicks...please go find it, I am too lazy to find the thread for you, but it is worthwhile seaking.

Sometimes gimmicks are the best solution, and sometimes they aren't - however, when used correctly, they look cleaner. I have never seen an ungimmicked version of Invisible Deck that has the same strength of the gimmicked deck. However, when you start with something like a blank deck...then change it to a printed deck, it begs to be examined. If someone says, "can I see that" and you have to say "no" - then the magic is destroyed.

Understanding when and how to use gimmicks should be studied the same as when and how to use certain sleights.

I can't think of many times that a good gimmick doesn't create efficiency. I don't use gimmicks because I am lazy - I use them because it allows a more magic moment to occur.

More later - but I will end with this. If you are a "purist" - then you don't understand how gimmicks can enhance your magic. If you are "all gimmick" then you don't understand how to properly enhance the gimmick.

I never understand why it has to be one or the other - every tool in the toolbox can lend to building a stronger magic memory.
 
Feb 27, 2008
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Grand prairie TX
How can they not? I find you quite interesting and amusing actually. I like you. I see you creating many good times for me in the future, whether you intend to or not. I also don't mind if you do not like me, I do not care, I just find you fun.

let me put it to you this way.
A director is applauded for the finished product. But not a single audience member gives a damn about he made it and the "hard" work he put into it.
The finished product is all that matters.
No seas un egoista muchacho.
Your friend was a better performer than you are. get over it.
Your skill with your hands was not up to par with your character,if you have one.
Fix it and grow. Your supposed to learn from your failures.
Not be a little b!tch about it.
 
Feb 27, 2008
2,342
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Grand prairie TX
we please just find a way to discuss this matter without being so negative all the time? It's all I ask for God's sake. I'm not "crying" about the issue. I just want to hear one's opinions without it being negative to someone else.

you should know by now that that is never going to happen in this world.
And points are actually getting across so this isnt just mindless babble here.
 
Dec 20, 2009
343
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Mumbai, India
As for why I didn't use gimmicks...is simple, as stated above, I want to use SOH as it is as close to real magic as can be...it's your hands doing all the work...no strings, no magnets, no gimmicks.
.

Im not trying to get into an argument here and I am NOT saying that your opinion is in any way "wrong". With that said, I dont think you're supposed to feel like your doing "real magic" I mean its great if you do but I dont think that shouldnt be the #1 priority, the more important thing should be the fact that the audience experiences "real magic". What if you were a layman whose watching a magic show what would you find more impressive a 7 of Diamonds changing into a 10 of clubs or an object floating in mid-air?

- Jenai
 
Hey guys, Casey here.

I just thought that I would take this short amount of time to discuss something that has been a "war" per se between gimmicks and impromptu tricks.

It is referred by magicians to perform impromptu magic; no special help from any supplies, just yourself and your object.

Though impromptu magic is taking the communities by storm, I have come to a personal conclusion that most people in this community think gimmicks are wrong. If you are not one of those people, then by all means keep reading. If you are one of those people, keep reading as well.

In this modern age of magicians, we tend to want to curve towards the impromptu side of magic. But has anyone thought that a gimmick could do much more than a trick that's impromptu? Here's an example

In Watermark by Mathieu Bich, could you do that performance the exact same way, but without a gimmick? Hell no. Unless you're God and you can bend the properties of water, it's pretty much over for you if you want to make it completely impromptu.

I also find that gimmicks are really intriguing. The way they are constructed, the use that is has, is really fascinating to me. It inspires you to start thinking about ways to use this gimmick for a different trick, and gimmicks can make some DEFINITE MIND BLOWING TRICKS TOO!

Here's another example:

Can you do this trick impromptu?

Spread through 2 cards and show you have the 2 black nines. Spin the packet very openly and display you now have 2 red tens. With a face up 10, it changes into an ace. Flip over the other card and it's a jack. Perfect Blackjack. Only 2 cards are found in the performer's hand.

That trick being impromptu would contain a think, six card packet. The gimmick? 2 cards. It's sometimes way more practical to use a gimmick than find a way to make it impromptu.

So my question is, why do some people automatically despise gimmicks? Why do we take them for granted and not use them because it's not "pure" so to speak?

Just thought I'd like to hear one's opinions on this topic. Makes a great discussion we all need to be participating in.

Cheers,

Casey Rudd
this is not directed at you are anyone else but there's nothing wrong with gimmicks, sure impromptu tricks are really really powerful, but somethings just aren't achievable without gimmicks so to even come up with a sweet gimmick can be devious and smart...
 
I guess since I do mostly sideshow, and I can tell you that all my props and stunts are REAL that makes you (by virtue of your own logic, and by comparison) a complete fake.

Get off your f-ing high horse you elitist jerk. How dare you step into a forum, with only 19 posts to your account, no established back ground or credits and toss out such a rude and slandering message like that. I know a few magicians who use gimmicks who will make more money in the next ten minutes doing magic related things than you probably will in your entire life. I'll even say one out loud. Criss Angel. Too main stream? Fine. David Copperfield. Oh he's too 1980's? Okay... Penn & Teller. Have I made my point yet?

May I suggest something to you? Grovel.
seriously??? all the way real???
 

JD

Jul 5, 2009
638
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Longview, Texas
ok this is getting way out of hand. Idc if i get flamed. Deagle- If you don't like that your friend got better reactions, maybe you should work on your presentation and charisma just as much as you do SOH. Also, why don't you incorporate gimmicks in as well? problem solved. And as someone posted earlier, alot of people have seen cups and balls. IF you're going to do it, do the clear cups and balls. not penn and tellers. there was some dude name justin something that did an amazing clear cups and balls routine. Most people don't see tht version too often.

Don't blame an inanimate object. Sure he didnt practice as much with that ID, but the idea behind it is irrefutable. It did it's job. Daniel Madison quote here for you:

There is no honour lost in method, regardless of method, only reputation, respect and creditability gained from the show.

/thread

With all due respects,

J.
 
i feel if the gimmick helps the trick, then why not.
if the work needed for the gimmick is greater than the results i will get, its scrapped. now im not talking about just card gimmicks, but any kind of gimmick out there.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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I love how this has carried on for about 2 and a half pages when we were pretty much done with it.

I think I should post in people's threads more often. I bring them popularity.
 
Jan 1, 2009
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Back in Time
Do what works best for you.

If you love being all sleight of hand. Then go for it.
If you enjoy using gimmicks for your shows. Then have at it.

What really matters is how your audience perceives the show. If they are enjoying it and being entertained. Then you have done your job.


I personally don't have anything against pure sleight of hand or the use gimmicks only.
 
Oct 20, 2008
273
0
Austin, TX area
Get off your [...] high horse...
I wish someone would sticky a thread with these words, "Get off your high horse", on every forum here.

I love magic.

Gimmicked. Ungimmicked. Close-Up. Stage.

Anyone who approaches magic with a different philosophy, a different set of skills, a different presence, a different routine, or even a different motivation can only be good for both of us. It means we're not carbon copies of each other. It sometimes even means that one or both of us can learn from the other.
 
Feb 27, 2008
2,342
1
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Grand prairie TX
Do what works best for you.

If you love being all sleight of hand. Then go for it.
If you enjoy using gimmicks for your shows. Then have at it.

What really matters is how your audience perceives the show. If they are enjoying it and being entertained. Then you have done your job.


I personally don't have anything against pure sleight of hand or the use gimmicks only.

I agree with this for the most part,its just irritating to see people shut themselves in one little box. like biased,uncultured people.
And if you dont use gimmicks,dont talk down or think your better than the people who use them because you are not.
 
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